Is it a good idea to use carbon steel pipes with E85?

[abc9]

The fuel E85 is a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, and is very corrosive. If anyone has any experience with using carbon steel pipes with E85 please give me some information. The other option is using stainless steel which is much more expensive. I need to know how the experience was with carbon steel in the industry, using for E85 or 100% ethanol. Was there any problem or it was fine for haw many years?

 

[SJones]

API TR 939-D

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[BigInch]

How can a viable fuel be "highly corrosive".
I don't have experience in handling or using it myself, but my research into its viability for pipeline transport has not indicated that it is corrosive, or that it has any adverse effects on carbon steel.



Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone. - Pablo Picasso

 

[SJones]

Check that API report!

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[BigInch]

I don't have it. Would you mind a brief synopsis.

API might have some conflicting interests as well??? From what I have seen, there is still at least conflicting opinions. Perhaps some are confused about how dry you have to keep it, presumedly contained water being the actual corrosive agent. Perhaps other evidence has since been discovered too. All I can say is that I came to believe at the time that pipeline quality dry ethanol was able to be transported in CS pipe without serious consequences. The only trouble I found at the time was that it was (and still is) difficult to keep dry. I formed an opinion at that same time, that it can be transported via pipeline, however the pipeline companies were not inclined to do so, because of the headaches involved in keeping it dry. That opinion has been reinforced since, because some pipeline companies do transport it, and I am rather sure that they would not, if it was proven that it is damaging their CS pipes and equipment.

Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone. - Pablo Picasso

 

[SJones]

The 'adverse effects' are (is) stress corrosion cracking.

http://global.ihs.com/doc_detail.cf...20731&input_doc_number=939-D&input_doc_title=

It's a 202 page report!

Having said that, experience shows that once the gasoline has been added, the risk of SCC is substantially removed.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[brimmer]

Get the API report as SJones suggests. Cracking can still occur with E85 from what I understand as it has been demonstrated in lab testing, real life cases I don't have detailed info. Another source of information is Dr. John Beavers of DNV, they did a PRCI report in 2007 - Prevention of Internal SCC in Ethanol Pipelines (PR 186-063515) and other papers, you can get it free if your company is a PRCI member. There are also various papers presented/published at NACE on ethanol SCC if you are a NACE member (or you can buy for about $10.00 if not). Attached is a power point summary of background/history.

 

[BigInch]

OK, that's interesting. At the time I did my study, there was no discussion of SCC. Probably no evidence of it had appeared until recently.

Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone. - Pablo Picasso

 

[abc9]

Thank you for the helpful inputs. I got the API TR 939-D (not read the whole report yet, but gone through findings and results), and reviewed the attached report.
Since the most SCC was reported at stress concentration points, do you recommend not using welded fittings?
For using threaded fittings, what type of sealant do you recommend that is compatible with E85?
Do you know if any faultier has been reported in carbon steel pipes of E85?