Is it worth it to get a PE license? 27

[jadyn137]

Really… how worth is it to get licensed? All it says is you can take a test very, very quickly (at least in California). Is it really the mark of a professional? I do professional level work already, but don't really get any credit for it. I see my bosses just tearing their hair out on a daily basis regarding project troubles. But since they have the stamp, they have responsible charge. I ask myself: "Why should I want a PE if that's what happens? Is the extra pay and 'prestige' worth it?" I have to say an unequivocal no. How does a "P.E." after your name dictate to anyone what level of dedication you have? I have heard the terms such as advanced leadership and management skills, higher dedication, integrity, and creativity connected with getting a license. Personally, I think that is a load because I am more dedicated and infinitely more creative than most so-called professionals in my division. But, since I didn't pass a test that is more a measure of problem solving speed than that of problem solving skill, I am not allowed the label "P.E." You can keep it. You can keep your project problems, I will just estimate your project to within 3% of the lowest bid, write up your special provisions and provide plans that are clear and consistent with all the other documents. Why would any boss want to lose an employee who can do that for the "noble" cause of getting a P.E. license? So I can get a job higher up in the company and get bleeding ulcers and migraine headaches from dealing with the project problems? Or go to another company and get problems there?
For those of you who are doubters, I have taken the CA PE exam four times, but still have not passed the seismic portion because I am just not fast enough. I did practice exams, and finished with an average time of 3 hours with 70 percent correct. You're allowed 2 hours for the exam. Therefore, you see the dilemma. I can do the work, but not quickly. When the test becomes more of a test of skill than of speed, I might try again. But until then, I have given up on it. Besides if I were to take it again and pass, I would do what I could to not let anyone know that I passed it. They might expect more out of me than the 110 percent than I already give in my job.

 

[JAE]

The question of whether its worth it or not is YOURS to answer - not sure why you are asking this forum in the manner you did.... sounds like you already either

a) have your mind made up that you prefer the background of design projects and don't wish to take on more responsibility (or can't), or

b) you are simply using this forum to dump out some frustrations....

not sure that's much help but I'm also not sure what you are really asking.

 

[JAE]

...but also - I'd say that for me - getting a PE and an SE was worth it in that it ALLOWS me to advance IF I WANT TO....in other words - it gave me choice in my career options.

I've never looked at it as specifically anointing me as some super designer - that has to come from my work effort and integrity.

 

[Ron]

Perhaps you should consider a career change. One of the reasons for having timed exams is to test one's ability to work under pressure. This is necessary for the statutory mandate of licensed engineers to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public.

 

[jadyn137]

Ron, last time I checked.. I wasn't required to design an entire project in 2.4 minutes. (time for each question on the seismic exam) I can handle the stress just fine. Being asked to solve fifty problems in two hours just to get a bigger paycheck is just not gonna happen.

I am just wondering if having a PE is really with the $500 or so dollars you have to spend each time the PE rolls around. (if you don't happen to live near a large city where its offered) or if its worth the headaches of being one of the higher-ups and getting a bigger paycheck.

I really love my job. I love doing what I do. What I don't like being pushed into something I have expressed no interest in, and being told I'm basically worthless for not wanting to be one of the higher-ups. People who go into supervisory positions and upper management, aside from getting the larger paycheck, become a chairbound paperpushers who lose the freedom of designing. What some don't realize is that the grunts like myself do the actual work. The PE's just review it, comment, sign it and get the credit, just because they can. I got into engineering so I can do the design, and not be one of the people who just ordering other people around.

I can advance in my position just fine. There are plenty of places who want good designers. Not every place wants superviors. If they don't like the fact that I don't have a PE, I don't work there.

 

[EngJW]

What is the trend today? When I graduated in 1975, taking the test was an option but few of my classmates took it. The opinion then was that you only needed it for civil engineering or if you wanted to be a consultant. In most of the places I have worked at it would not make any difference. Promotions and pay raises were due to other reasons, not the PE or advanced degrees.

However, I have heard that some colleges require students to take it before graduating. Times have changed I guess.

John Woodward

 

[jay165]

Hey Jaydn:

Welcome to the real world. From your posts, it is obvious that you don't understand the basics of how it works. Those managers that you ridicule are responsible for bringing work into your firm and thus providing you with work. Their ability to attact and retain clients not only keeps themselves employed but you and your colleauges as well.

Believe it or not, one frequently does have to "design" on a project in a few minutes when dealing with a demanding client.

BTW, bleeding ulcers are not caused by stress, but by a bacteria. The Nobel Prize was awarded to the discoverer.

 

[Ron]

jay165...that's right. Those who strive to obtain licensing are rewarded with more responsibility and more opportunity, as it should be. I'm proud of the fact that I'm licensed and it was NEVER a question in my mind from the time I chose engineering as a career.

Other professions are more harsh than engineering in lack of career advancement. For example, most accounting firms will tell you up front that you will become a CPA within or certain time frame or you'll find some other place to work. The same is true of attorneys, doctors, and other licensed professionals.

The more licensed individuals that work in a firm, the more opportunity that firm has to attract new work and clients to keep the "designers" busy as jay165 said. Without that group of licensed engineers, you wouldn't have anything to "design" if you're in a firm that offers services to the public.

 

[VeryPicky]

It is not my intention to start converting anybody to my point of view. I am an engineer. I am a registered professional engineer.
Why?
Because I had a choice and exercised it. Did the registration change me? NO!

I am still the same me. Dedicated to my job as I always was. I take a pride in what I do and I love to seal my work, giving it final touch with my seal. I am not expecting other people to respect me more because of my professional status. I want them to know that I am for all those thigs that engineering stands for.
Ethics, Tenacity, Diligence, Knowledge and Common Sense.

If it does not appeal to any of you... "honestly, dear, I don't give a damn".

I wish you all luck and satisfaction no matter if you have that little stamp or not.

Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering

 

[ghghghgh]

jadyn137,
You've answered your own question. "Besides if I were to take it again and pass, I would do what I could to not let anyone know that I passed it. They might expect more out of me than the 110 percent than I already give in my job." is an absolutely ridiculous statement. It is clear that you're not posing a legitimate question to this forum and just venting for your inability to pass the exam.

The best boss I ever had took it 6 times. He had the same problem with time as you, but he never, never belittled the profession, the license, others who had passed, or the process to obtain the license. Why? Because people who do that are not professionals, regardless of whether they have a license or not.

 

[HgTX]

I, on the other hand, belittle the exam because I got the highest score in the state and I just ain't that smart. Something is clearly wrong.

Plenty wrong with the PE licensing system. Doesn't make the system worthless though.

Having been through the process, I don't feel that the path the system made me take was any kind of demonstration of my capacity to do the kind of work I actually do. So I'm disillusioned--I almost think it should be totally resume- and portfolio-based, bag the exam completely. It's harder to standardize, but it would be more meaningful. (Though jay165 has a point about being able to design under pressure.)

All that said, I still think the license is a valuable thing, and not just because I'm required to have one to get anywhere. That extra liability is, in a way, a good thing. We NEED to approach all our decisions as if they could come back on our heads--perhaps literally, like the old story of the designer needing to stand under the structure while it's load-tested.

On a more practical note, jadyn137, have you taken prep courses? I know if I ever decide to get a Structural Engineering licence, there's no way I could pass just trying to prepare on my own. I would need to sign up for a several-month course, at least. Also, if you have that much trouble taking the tests, have you ever been tested for a learning disability? You might be able to get a time dispensation. (Note to everyone else--this is not the place for PC or anti-PC rants about the concept about a learning disability.)

Hg

 

[jsummerfield]

Get the PE. Don't worry about additional responsibilities. Where does that crap come from anyway? Take the FE (EIT) and P&P review classes.

Take the FE exam while in school. Although few instructors recommended and few other students were interested, my older son took the fundamentals exam this year.

You never know when you may need the PE to land a job or lead a project.

John

 

[HgTX]

It amazes me that people don't take the FE exam in school--especially in civil engineering, where a PE later on is almost mandatory. I guess it really varies from school to school. In my department, we all took it. It wasn't a requirement for graduation, but we almost thought of it as such.

Hg

 

[Ron]

HgTX....same here. It was a badge of honor to have passed it before graduation.

 

[HD2]

The PE license system may have flaws, but you could look at it as proof of having the minimum skills required for a good engineer. You can still have PE's that are not great engineers.

Just like everyone with a medical license is not necessarily a good doctor. Being good at a profession is more than just technical accuracy.

But technical accuracy and understanding is the "bare minimum" before considering someone to be a licensed professional.

If a PE license is not important, then why not go to a "doctor" that is not licensed? Would you hire an "attorney" that could not pass the bar? No, because that is the bare minimum qualification that you would expect from one of those professionals before retaining them. Why should clients accept any less from engineers?

For the record, I'm not a PE yet, just putting in my time. Passed the FE, and I've got one more year before taking the PE.

 

[EddyC]

The folks on this forum bring out a lot of good points. I wouldn't utilize the services of a doctor or lawyer who wasn't licensed. However, as an individual, I will probably never need to utilize the services of an engineer on my personal behalf. This is one of the main differences between engineering and the other professions. The "public" doesn't really utilize engineers. Its businesses and corporations who do. In addition, I have a PE but I sometimes regret it, as I have an employer who on occassion asks me to stamp substandard drawings.

 

[jay165]

Hey EddyC:

I guess when the "public" crosses a bridge over a river or rides in a elevator, that doesn't count as "use".

As for your other comment about stamping substandard drawings: not only is it a violation of any states' laws regarding PE ethics, it is morally wrong as well.

Do all of us in the profession a favor: FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK!

 

[EddyC]

jay165,

I think you misunderstood my post. Two Points:

a) I said that my employer on occasion asks me to stamp substandard drawings. I don't comply with his request and I hate the fact that I am even put in such a situation. I feel that no one should be put in such a situation.

b) I am a member of the public. I didn't procure the services of the engineer who designed any of the bridges that I drive over. The individual(s) who did procure these services are free to choose the lowest bidder of the engineering services and have no liability whatsoever from the results. Its someone else who pays the price if the bridge fails. When I procure the services of a doctor or lawyer, its for me, not someone else. I therefore have a vested interest in choosing the best provider and not just the cheapest.

 

[jay165]

EddyC:

Awarding engineering services to the lowest bidder on any federal (and to my knowledge) any state public works project is illegal. It's called the Brooks Act.

Look it up.

 

[EddyC]

One of the other points that I was trying to make was the difference between engineering and law & medicine. In engineering the "service procuring agent"(developer, contractor, owner, etc.) and the "end user"(tenant, worker, public, etc.) are normally separate entities. In medicine and law they are usually the same entity. This can have a dramatic effect upon the low cost vs. quality selection.