Issue with a co-worker 3

[wes616]

My company is in the process of migrating from 2D CAD to 3D CAD. As such, we have a number of drafters that are, for the most part working on legacy drawings. All of our new work is using the 3D. As such we are trying to transition our older designers over to using 3D. Some are more resistant than other. One in particular, seemed to embrace this "new" technology earlier that some of the others, and has now found his way onto a new product team. He however, has not gotten to the point of being productive beyond making detail drawings. He is detailing the parts that I am designing, and therefor I am responsible for signing off on his work.

Now I am sensitive to the fact that I am 20+ years younger than my co-worker that is now working for me. I try and give him room to figure things out, and when I talk to him I try and do so in a manner that is not going to hurt his pride or ego. I try and make suggestions more than make demands, etc etc etc. This person refuses to give me the same consiteration. He uses every chance he gets to belittle me in front of the other drafters in our drafting room. I have asked him to make his drawing a certain way, and he love to tell me, loudly, how I am doing it WRONG! However, when I go to our DRM and actually look, HE is the one doing the wrong thing. PLUS, I am asking him to do things TO OUR CUSTOMERS REQUIREMETS and request. I have tried explaining both of these things to him in a very quiet and polite manner. This was just responded to by a very loud and defiant, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. I am now at my witts end. None of the other engineers here will work with him in any sort of intimate manner. I am (was) the only one.

On top of this, the Engineer Manager "freaked out" yesterday, that he was NOT working on my project, but on one of the lower priority legacy projects. This, honestly was because I had no drawings to give him because I was in the midst of a design (in 3D) for the next step in my project. I tried explaining the situation (both the attitude and actual work) to my boss, but this guy has convinced our boss that we (all 5 engineers here) have bad attitudes toward him, and because of that we never give him any work.

Well I now know why others give him NO work, but I must, OR ELSE.

How do I talk to this guy and get him to do the things that I need him to do, with his attitude about me? Any ideas would be much appriciated.

Wes C.

 

[HVAC68]

This may or may not be the solution for your specific case. I have once handled a similar situation.

We had an experienced draftsman, who used to make drawings on the drawing board - that's right - manual and could never work on AutoCAD and never wanted to. He was more than a draftsman and could actually design as well - in double quick time. His outputs were excellent, but he was not abreast with technology and hence we had trouble utilising him. However, the management wanted him to continue and utilise his knowledge. We used his services in churning out design drawings and used a raw draftsman with little or very little knowledge in the subject to convert these drawings into AutoCAD - yes, it meant duplication of work, but in the process the new guy started learning and the old guy was happy too in imparting his knowledge. Lot of pep talk was required to be done to arrive at this solution. After a period of time, we replaced the AutoCAD draftsman with another new guy and trained him too.

Not sure whether you can think something in these lines.

HVAC68

 

[epoisses]

Sounds hard. I don't see a magical solution.
Don't kneel down even further in the mud because you're 20 years younger. Keep working with this guy, ignore or correct his misbehavior as you fee like, keep in mind what your objectives are. Be more stubborn than he is. Good luck!

 

[epoisses]

PS don't bother to try to make him realise that what he's doing is wrong. Waste of time.

 

[bandraoi]

Would recommend that you stop being so wishy washy. Whatever your age either this guy respects you as a colleague or he doesn't. At the moment he doesn't because you're playing all softly softly.

Also, 90% of your communication with this guy should be in writing from here on in, or written down immediately afterwards. If he's going to the boss then you need to be able to back yourself up to the hilt when the boss comes to you.

 

[melone]

Sounds like this person has an inferiority complex, and is trying to take control of the situation. He is. Whenever he goes off on one of his rants, rephase what he just said in the manner is which it was recieved. For example....

Good employee: Please draft the following part per these instructions.

Aggressive employee: NO! I WON'T DO IT THAT WAY, YOU'RE WRONG!

Good employee: Are you saying that you refuse to follow standard, company approved operating procedures? Why?

 

[wes616]

Well this morning the guy started YELLING AT ME, because I gave him a package of Redlines to do... They were to correct something that I had done wrong before, because I NEED him to continue WORKING on my PROJECT.... LOUDLY criticizing my DRAWING in front of everyone. I KNOW WHAT I HAD DONE WAS WRONG (ie. not part of the standard) AND WAS TRYING TO CORRECT IT.

I mean JESUS CHRIST....

Wes C.

 

[wes616]

hopeing to smooth this out I just sent this to him.

Dear unnamed employee,

I am currently under a large amount of pressure to get out a "preliminary" version of the drawing that you are working on right now. I understand that it may have some issues at this time; but I just need to get them a copy. At that time, we can work on finishing the drawing / fixing the errors. I understand that this may be doing a little extra work, but any help you could give me would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

me

I hope this will get him on borard for the time being. I BCC'd my boss, and am now going to talk with him about this again. I know this is not resloving the problem. More like brushing it under the rug.

Next time we'll try sometihing a little more direct.

BTW Melone, I tried what you were saying this morning, but it didn't really work very well.

I CAN SEE THAT THIS WILL BE AN ONGOING PROBLEM. ANY MORE ADVICE WILL BE APPRICIATED

Wes C.

 

[MikeHalloran]

You are being WAY too nice.

First, you have to get the jackass into a closed room, just the two of you.

Say that you are trying to learn from his experience and respect his wisdom.

Then demand at least the courtesy he would show to a complete stranger; yelling at anyone in public is rude, and in the workplace, it's unprofessional. <This may be more effective if you yell it, and use very rude words.>

Tell him that you will accept his input and listen to his opinion, but that you are ultimately responsible for his work, and that once you have discussed any given issue and made a decision, you expect him to carry out your instructions.

Tell him that you can and do screw up, and when you do, you expect him to politely and privately call it to your attention, and to help you correct your errors.

Tell him that when he screws up, that you will politely and privately call it to his attention, and help him correct his errors.

Reach out and touch his upper arm, and think him for his support and understanding. <This step is important; read "Frogs Into Princes".>

All of this stuff works better if you really mean it.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[LHA]

wes:
Your own solution is the best one so far, IMHO.

It is certainly the one which is most likely (although not guaranteed) to solve the problem long-term. You did not 'sweep it under the rug', you rose above the situation. If your boss is worthwhile, he/she will realize that...although I would cut out bcc'ing. I always hate that - either cc or don't copy at all, let everyone see who can see.

You can always resort to agressive techniques if your way fails, but then you are more likely to have superiors behind you, if they can see an effort at mature, constructive resolution was attempted.

You've shown yourself to be a leader in the making, as this is how a good leader tries to handle insubordination.

Remember: The Chinese ideogram for “crisis” is comprised of the characters for “danger” and “opportunity.”
-Steve

 

[wes616]

Thanks Steve,

Well, here is the "after lunch" perspective.

The drafter did not incoporate the redlines that I gave him to do. He fixed some of the problems on the first page (of 14) and nothing else. I was shocked at first; sometimes the best thing to do is to go to lunch... so I did.

I explained the situation to my boss, and shown him the redlines. Currently, our most senior structural engineer, is doing the redlines that this drafter should have done... a job well "below him" but is doing it happily, to lend a hand... (and to learn the new software).



Wes C.

 

[bandraoi]

I am currently under a large amount of pressure to get out a "preliminary" version of the drawing that you are working on right now. I understand that it may have some issues at this time; but I just need to get them a copy. At that time, we can work on finishing the drawing / fixing the errors. I understand that this may be doing a little extra work, but any help you could give me would be very much appreciated.


This guy is being PAID to help you. He is being PAID to do this work. It is nice to be polite and ask someone nicely but that hasn't worked.
Stop being so non-confrontational and wishy washy and STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. Tell him what to do.

 

[epoisses]

Agree wiht bandraoi.
I guess it must be a lot of fun to be an @$$hole and see everybody around you going through painstaking efforts to stay polite, understanding and non-confronting, trying to make you do what you're paid to do.
Just be more stubborn than he is and you'll get what you what in the end.

 

[ziggi]

The fact of the matter remains this person will not willingly submit to what you do.

I like the idea of using an email to illustrate the issue to your superior. However if you were given responsibility over this individual you should handle him yourself, use the email and his reply (whether it be his actions or an email from him) as evidence to support your confrontation with him.
This way you can confront him and his escape route (running to YOUR superior) is cut off. If you let it go and if he hassles YOUR boss too much, your boss is going to wonder whether or not YOU can handle the responsibility.

In conclusion, try to be non-confrontational at first and persuade him to do his work, understand his situation etc. (this has obviously failed). Next frame the issue in writing to the employee and copy your superior (to cover yourself).
Finally use confrontation, stuborness etc to make him do his job, if he still refuses write him up for insubordination or failing that, gradually make his workload less meaningful and more insignificant, until he can be released from his position.

The last step sounds cruel, but thats life.

 

[wes616]

Thanks, guys.

My attempt at "non-confrontation" failed. I had to try it thought; as I think it is the first step (<-- agree with Ziggi).

I tried confronting him, and he blatently disregarded my direction. And I have it on paper. I have shown this to my boss (as well a gotten the support of the rest of the engineering department).

gradually make his workload less meaningful and more insignificant,

As of this morning, he has NO projects, and none of us can figure out what he will do today (or ever again) for us. Maybe the electrical engineers will take him on, but... that is another room...

Wes C.

 

[LHA]

Wouldn't it be a riot if "the co-worker" were to stumble on this site?

You (and all the other eng's) DO have someone of his abilities to do your CADD work, right?

I often feel like not using some of our CADD people, then I sit back and imagine doing it all myself...

Good luck

Remember: The Chinese ideogram for “crisis” is comprised of the characters for “danger” and “opportunity.”
-Steve

 

[wes616]

HAD I DONE IT MYSELF it would have been done on Tuesday. As it was, I ended up finishing the drawing last night at 8:30pm anyway.

I often feel like not using some of our CADD people, then I sit back and imagine doing it all myself...

I agree with you that it is a lot of work to produce a good drawing, and I have the upmost respect for people who can and do make beautiful looking drawings. I don't! I make a decent drawing.

But after thinking about it for a while... I'm not sure if it really is MORE work to do it myself.

Wes C.

 

[IRstuff]

That's irrelevant. As a manager or team leader, YOU are being paid to do other things that your subordinates either can't or won't.

The fact that you can do the work yourself is irrelevant and detrimental to the overall team performance, because doing the work yourself means that the stuff that you are supposed to be doing doesn't get done. Additionally, if you are taking personal time to do it, you are doing your family a disservice.

TTFN

 

[ziggi]

Hey Wes,
Good to hear that it worked out, I agree with you when it comes to respecting the work that the skilled labor does. I've got two guys under me, both are very skilled at what they do and I defer to them in most cases due to their experience or I consult them regarding matters which concern their area of expertise. Plus the work they do cannot be learnt in a book and I have the utmost respect for their labor.
However they are both at the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to reciprocation of respect for the job I am doing.
Both are about the same age (about 20 years older than me) however one treats me with respect since I treat him with respect, as for the other, he feigns respect and constantly lies to me, to take advantage of my lack of industry knowledge. I handled this in the way I suggested to you but I cannot lower his workload due to the fact that he is a specialist (we need him), unlike your problem which can easily be replaced. I've noticed that stubborness seems to work as does a healthy amount of skepticism.
I do have to say that working with the guy has given me plenty of practice at dealing with difficult people.

As for the other person I reward what he does by telling management how good he is at his work and generally looking out for his well being.

Any other suggestions about dealing with the difficult one would be appreciated. And am I doing enough for the helpful one?

 

[wes616]

IRstuff,

I wish it was the case that this person would just "do" the work required of him per the terms of his employment. I, of course, DO have other things that I need to do, and I do NOT want to be making drawings at this time, because I do not have the time.

I don't want to stay at my office for 12 hours to get things done, but I needed to get the drawing on the shop floor yesterday morning to keep with our schedule (which is ver tight - and me making drawings makes it even tighter), and when this person, through attitude and acknoledgement refused to do the work that I asked of him, the only thing I can do is to make MY management aware of the problem and figure out any work-around that I could in order to GET THE JOB DONE! The only "workaround" that was available yesterday was the sweat of my labor.

-----

ziggi

unlike your problem which can easily be replaced.

unfortunately our design staff is not easily replaced. Drafters/Designers in the Aerospace industry are highly skilled persons that do a very specialized job. Unfortunately one bad apple will ruin the bunch.

Wes C.