Keeping your Salary Confidential 19

[Dirtguy4587]

I was just thinking back to my previous employer. When it came time to review salaries, my supervisor would ask us to keep our new salaries confidential from the other employees. Personally, I didn't see an issue with this - I feel my salary is my own business. However, I had a co-worker who felt compelled to share his salary, with the attitude that it was his salary, and he could disclose it if he so chose. Our supervisor was not impressed, and we learned that (after all discussing salaries) there were significant discrepancies between level of experience and compensation.

I'm curious if others have encountered this, and what opinions are out there.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

This is normal practice when working for companies which do not adhere to firm skill/experience 'grading' practices.

The company will pay an employee just enough to keep the employee 'happy' enough to continue working. The most productive employee could be paid the least if his/her bargaining skills are lacking.

 

[Christine74]

"we learned that (after all discussing salaries) there were significant discrepancies between level of experience and compensation"

Which is precisely why your supervisor doesn't want you talking. I've spoke with a few people who left our company and they readily told me what they were paid here vs. what they're earning now. I was quiet astonished to find out that some rather inexperienced employees earned more than their much more experienced and technically knowledgeable peers.

-Christine

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Keep it quiet for all the reasons mentioned or you might be out of a job.

Hone your negotiating skills and define what you are worth - go for it - and be happy with it.

For what it is worth - I think the Bible even has a story regarding this - something about guys starting in the morning at one level and guys starting a noon for the same amount. My biblical studies are at best very slim - but obviously this has been a problem for a long time.

 

[KENAT]

Mike, yes it's in the Bible.

The literal meaning is that you agree your pay/contract with your boss when you started. If shortly after someone else gets a better deal then what right have you got to complain - you were happy with your deal when you negotiated it?

(The spiritual significance is either about Gentiles being saved or death bed confession type deals)

I haven't discussed my pay with current colleagues, partly because I was under the impression I was doing better than many of them and didn't want to rub their noses in it. Of cours I could be wrong, maybe they're doing better than me!

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[ctopher]

I never share my salary with anyone. A lot of speculation can be made about you by coworkers.
At another company my manager told a coworker my salary. My coworker had been there a lot longer than me and was very upset that my salary was more than his.

My suggestion, keep your personal business to yourself.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MadMango]

It is very common in corporate America, and elsewhere. Salaries should be kept between you and your supervisors. The only thing that comes out of salary discussion with co-workers is either complaints or bragging- both useless.

 

[SomptingGuy]

My episode was somewhat different. An employee from one of our US offices spent a Summer in our office to learn some of the tricks of our trade and the methods we used. I spent a lot of time teaching him techniques to take home with him. We got on fairly well and I casually asked him what he earned over there. He told me and after the initial wow, I thought nothing more of it.

A year later I was offered a job over there myself. The money was substantially less than I'd been told a year ago, by someone essentially my equal. Plus he would have had a raise since then.

When I mentioned this to the boss making me the offer, all hell broke loose. I got bumped up quite a bit, but from then on, all offers were made on the grounds that they were secret.

- Steve

 

[jmw]

Just goes to show that you can't go far wrong by following the principle that whatever the situation, management will shaft you whenever it can (the story of the frog and the scorpion crossing the river is apposite) and its up to you to do the best for yourself, no other blighter will.

Or, more simply, life is only as fair as you can make it.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Comparing salaries between colleagues (who can be trusted to keep the shared knowledge between themselves) can be very useful. That knowledge can be used to push (gently) for a better salary.

 

[Dirtguy4587]

I guess the part that I find most amusing about my story is that the company claimed to have set benchmarks for salary vs. experience, consistent with our Professional Organization salary surveys. Obviously, after discussion, the benchmarks were not so clearly defined.

I agree with keeping salaries confidential, however, my colleagues point was that it is his salary, and the boss has no right to tell him to keep it quiet. To some point I agree with him, albeit I do not like sharing my compensation details with anyone other than my wife.

 

[zdas04]

Secret salaries only benefit the company, not the employee. If everyone posted their current salary and raise percent on their door, supervisors would have a lot less opportunity to play favorites or to shaft a good worker because they think they can get away with it. I always threatened to do this, but then chickened out--I'll always wonder if my supervisor saying "you are making a LOT more than your peers, so keep it to yourself" was even true. I'll never know now.

David

 

[EngJW]

When I was young and not very smart, I bragged to an older coworker about my raise, not realizing at the time that he got much less probably because he was considered past his prime. Of course, he went in the office and raised hell about it, and I ended up getting an ass-chewing since I disregarded my bosses advice to keep it confidential.

As time goes on maybe merit raises will disappear and the job will pay only one salary regardless of years or qualifications, but that's in someone elses lifetime.

 

[BigInch]

Secrecy can be viewed as nothing but a deliberate attempt to control a free market by hindering the transfer of information, so bargining in a free marketplace becomes more difficult, if not impossible. That seems a bit ironic because most companies seem to be fighting for the right to set their product prices in an unregulated free market, or controlling prices in a favorably regulated market, and pay a lot of consultants good money for information related to market pricing and predictions of future price levels. As many of you have recognized, the practice is not viewed fairly by a society that is otherwise accustomed to free market bargining for virtually everything else of value and can be a great source of anamosity amongst employees when these "unfair" practices are discovered by the "victims". As most of us are taught at an early age to strive to be fair to others and thus justly expect to be treated fairly by others, the concept leaves an especially bitter taste when it appears to only be working to the benefit of others and they feel that they are being taken advantage of. In fact most government civil service HR policies recognize the concept as a very great potential source of abuse and attempt to control and rectify it by establishing pay grades with specified ranges that greatly reduce the possibility of unfairness, yet do allow at least some leeway in recognizing individual contributions. As such, I personally see no long term advantage to the employer in maintaining secret salary practices, unless they place no value what so ever on the personnel they do have working for them. And i think zdas' has a hell of a good idea there of posting salaries on the office door. In fact I actually think I will adopt it too. That's the greatest "equalizer" I've heard of in a long time. Way to go zdas!

 

[oneintheeye]

there is one company here in UK that in its advertising for emplyees states 'open published salary levels /grade. Seems like a good idea. I wouldnt know what to expect if i got 4 promotions let alone if if getting screwed now. (though ive got a massive feeling i am)

 

[GregLocock]

David/zdas, exactly. Who does lack of widely dispersed information favour? Those who know the whole picture.






Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[jmw]

As Scot(1 or 2 ts?) Adams says, we live in a confusopoly and it isn't confined to the market place, it extends through our entire lives.

In the market place the confusopoly works to defeat the downward trend in prices that competition might otherwise engender but in the workplace it works toward keeping down overheads and costs i.e. salaries.

It is never as simple as comparing salaries, there is a whole package of "benefits" which makes comparisons as difficult as choosing a phone provider, we all know we are getting shafted but can never really figure out if we are being shafted more or less than if we worked somewhere else.

The only way to gain is to keep trading employers and take advantage of all those "0% interest on money transfer when you take our credit card today" offers and even then, you know there is no such thing as a free lunch.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Even if your co-workers are tight-lipped about salaries, there are third-party salary surveys to give you a hint.

Again, Scot Adams has it nailed: companies select the best people they can find, and then want to pay them the industry average. As the pointy-haired boss says, "That's the way we like 'em- bright, but clueless!" And just like Wally, I feel sorry for people like that!

Information is power, so those who have the power like to control the information for their own benefit.

It's amazing that ordinary working people have this one figured out, but we "professionals" are the ones who get confused...

 

[DWHA]

How about this for a situation. I graduated 3 years ago. Year 1 raise = 5%, year 2 raise = 5% year 3 raise = 16%. My boss said that I had come a long way and this was an adjustment to get me to what I was worth. I recently found out that our new engineer that graduated 6 months ago stated at 2% less than what I make now. After numerous people turned down the job, the company decided that they need to up the starting pay to get someone in. And that is the reason that I got the large raise (along with 3 others that have the same amount of experience). And now, the new person is very unproductive (as all are there first year) but making basically the same as I am. Now what is really interesting, we just offed a job to someone with there masters degree to start in January. What is this person going to make in comparision to everyone else...

 

[mechengdude]

All the companies I've been with want their employees to keep salary information to themselves. Why wouldn't they? Revealing salaries among peers causes lots of headaches for the manager. Salaries among your peers will vary widely.

An old manager trick is to tell each employee during the review that their raise was one of the best and they get paid more than anyone else, and by the way keep that to yourself.

My opinion/strategy is to keep an eye on sources like monster.com, salary.com and Design News to determine what fair market value is. I make sure I get paid at or above what the sources say I should make and that keeps me happy. Oh, and I don't tell others what I make because that would make my supervisor’s job harder and he would stop giving me good raises....