Kentucky Tornados 6

[JedClampett]

I'm a little surprised that no one has posted this. I know that there's no tornado structural design criteria required except for hardened shelters, but that doesn't mean that 100's of people should die or be injured in one building. Was this an engineering failure, a procedural failure or just one of those things?

 

[LittleInch]

It's unfortunately one of those very very low probability ( for any one particular building / town) high consequence events where making all buildings able to withstand the huge forces in a tornado becomes unfeasible from a cost perspective.

I don't know a huge amount about the big warehouse but did see that they had some warning, but not enough protection inside to survive a building collapse.

So for me this is a procedural / ability to evacuate to a safe place issue, not a structural failure that could not be practically designed for.

Hurricane winds are different as they are over a much larger area and more frequent. Tornados are very small path events.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[sbisteel]

I think from a building code standpoint there are improvements that can be made. We codify minimum egress paths, widths, etc. based on occupancy. It seems like requiring bunkers/shelters at certain spacing within these monster warehouses should be part of the life safety decision making process in tornado country.

 

[phamENG]

From a facilities planning standpoint I'm not sure what the codes are and what minimum requirements are for tornado shelters. I can say from my experience working at a manufacturing facility in eastern North Carolina, we had tornado shelters within a certain distance of every building. All the office buildings had clusters of precast shelters anchored just outside the rear exits. The plant itself had basement areas that were designated so floor personnel could do an emergency shutdown and take cover. We had periodic drills and tests of a siren system.

From the looks of it, this facility had inadequate storm response protocols and facilities. I can't say whether or not they were required, but I can say that they are far from being the exemplars of comprehensive risk mitigation.

There have been some steps taken in recent years to codify tornado shelter requirements. Here's a look at the some of those requirements from a professional liability insurance perspective: Link

And it does look like that had a little bit of warning on this: Link

 

[LuK13]

From the reports I have seen this was a management failure. Employees were told they would be fired if they left work early to seek shelter. It would be one thing if management said "Hey, don't get on the road now, we have tornado shelters on site and the safest thing to do is shelter in place." With the reports questioning the adequacy of the on-site shelters safety doesn't seem to be the number one concern at these warehouses.

I have had some bad bosses that required I report to work ahead of a predicted blizzard. Then, once we are in the thick of it and the Governor declares a state of emergency and closes the highways I get some version of "Man, its really bad out there, everyone needs to go home before it gets worse." At that point the damage is done and we should be sheltering in place. I have had a number of coworkers wind up in a ditch on the side of an interstate because of managers that think like this. Luckily these weren't matters of life and death, unfortunately these tornados were.

We have the technology to offer advanced warning for most extreme weather events. Refusing to listen to the warnings is ignorance. Forcing employees to ignore the warnings is negligence.

Just my two cents.

 

[phamENG]

Couldn't agree more, Luk13.

 

[EdStainless]

I have worked various places around the midwest, and while all of the plants had suitable shelter (restroom/locker room built with reinforced and filled CMU) the management handling of emergencies was all over the place.
It ranged from requiring sheltering to people hearing sirens and running outside with cameras to get pictures.
While this is a management failure it may also be an upper management failure in not providing suitable on site shelter.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, in the storm we had here is SoCal on Monday and Tuesday, even though the final rainfall was less than predicted, 0.80 inches instead of the 1.30 predicted, there was still extensive flooding in the canyons and burned-over areas, a lot of which was also in the canyons. And for this we got THREE alert warnings on our cellphones over the course of about four hours telling us to stay off the roads unless you were in one of the potentially flooded areas, then you were asked to evacuate.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[phamENG]

John - hard to imagine. That's just a rainy summer day here. But then if the meteorologists think snow might be in the vicinity the city shuts down, and I know the good folks up north like to laugh about that.

Of course there's nothing to joke about here - the droughts out west are hard to imagine for other reasons. I have family in SoCal - San Diego county near Vista and Oceanside - and visiting them a few years ago was like visiting another planet.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Back in the late 80's I was on an extended assignment at the GM Tech Center in Warren, MI. Because I was basically treated as if I was a contractor to GM (actually they were our customer and I was there consulting on training and implementation of our software) I had to take a 'safety & security' class, which included, among other things, all of the procedures that you had to follow in case of emergencies like fires and tornadoes. GM had extensive hardened areas spread across the 600 acres campus. Virtually every building had either a ground floor hardened area or a basement shelter, all very well marked. BTW, the other big item covered in this 'safety & security' class was special emphasis on industrial security, meaning how to avoid the theft of intellectual property (the guy who covered this material was a retired CIA officer now employed by GM security).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[drwebb]

For the moment allegations of what management said or didn't appear hearsay. Company reps claim they have (written?) policies covering tornado response, so to my mind it should be verifiable if such procedures were followed or not. If the affected companies had stop work authority policies, would they apply in such a case?

 

[Teguci]

ASCE 7-22 is adding tornado considerations. IBC 2015 (18?) requires new schools and additions have tornado shelter included. Don't do work in tornado ally so not aware of standard practice, but I don't see the building code requiring shelters. A bit surprised by that. Any locals know what there are for tornado codes?

 

[TigerGuy]

The challenge with tornados is still insufficient warning. I've seen too many times where the weatherman says, "Ok, we have a Tornado Warning for City XYZ." and by the time he gets those words out, the tornado is ripping things apart 15-20 miles downwind.

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families.

 

[FacEngrPE]

I found a discussion on the code issue authored by XL Catelin "When the Code Requires You to Design a Tornado Shelter"
ICC 500, ICC/NSSA Standard for the Design and Construction of Storm Shelters. The 2015 ICC building code requires storm shelters for a few occupancy in part of the country.

FEMA issues P-361 guideline on safe rooms, but does not mandate where safe rooms are required.
It will be interesting to see how OSHA reacts to the availability of shelters in the various businesses, and the willingness (or not) of management to allow their use. It likely will boil down to OSHA's view of "Recognized Hazard"

https://www.osha.gov/tornado[/URL]]"To prepare for a tornado, businesses should develop an emergency plan. The plan should include details on suitable places to take shelter, policies to ensure all personnel are accounted for, and procedures for addressing any hazardous materials that are on-site. It is also recommended that individuals develop action plans for their families."

OSHA seems to think paying attention to hazards is important.
OSHA.net Be Prepared for Tornadoes

 

[OHIOMatt]

There has been a push for the construction of "Community Safe Rooms" of late. I love the concept, but I still do not think this solves the issue of warnings. I would be a big propoent of adding these at schools. The space could be used as an auxiliary gymnasium most of the time, but as a shelter during severe weather.

 

[dik]

I'm not in a real tornado area, but I understand the conditions for a tornado are easy to recognise, but the actual tornado is not, and they happen quickly. That may be the problem.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

Living in an area prone to earthquakes, we have no warning system of any kind. That being said, it does eliminate that period of anxiety that one has when something like a tornado warning goes out, until you get an all-clear. I almost prefer not being anxious ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[drwebb]

On the residential construction side, getting away from root cellers as standard equipment maybe wasn't a step forward as far as this issue is concerned . . .

 

[CWB1]

IIRC OSHA is the big driver of tornado requirements in commercial/industrial properties here in the midwest. I dont recall the regulator, but at one employer's plant we had to get creative placing new equipment in the basement as that was the designated storm shelter and we had to maintain both floor space and ease of entry for thousands of employees.

Funny but true tornado story - when I lived in Indiana our local Meijer's shelter was designed into the refrigerated section of their warehouse. During one storm we were ushered inside, the doors were closed, and to prevent worry my wife started inspecting expiration dates.

 

[JedClampett]

I initiated this thread. I was kind of interested in the type of building that the candle factory (and other multiple fatality structures) were. I can't tell from the photos and drone shots what kind of structure they were. A Pre-Engineered Metal Building (PEMB) would seem fragile in a tornado. Most buildings are. But it seems that if you weren't crushed by a main frame or suffered a steel purlin blow to the head, two unlikely (and unlucky) events, it's not a killer building. There's no long drops, heavy roof mounted equipment, or secondary affects, like flooding, fire or asphyxiation.
Does anyone have information on building types?