Lack of oil pressure, Crank-Cam position DTCs

[duperlf]

So im on a car team at school where were integrating a hybrid powertrain into a 2016 Camaro. Were using GM's 2.0L LTG engine coupled with 2 YASA P400 electric motors. Our packaging forced us to use a dry sump for engine....problem was that at the time, no one made a dry sump for this engine, so we made our own. We spoke with Moroso regarding the oil pump, and they recommended this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mor-22343/overview/.

The pump is driven @ 70% engine speed off of a custom sprocket on the crank that has the timing chain profile as well as the pump belt profile on it

For the pan design, we based it on this one:

Here's ours:

We did some tests of the oil system prior to startup to make sure we were getting oil flow and it does seem like we are (were getting oil pressure, oil is flowing to the top of the engine, and its circulating back into the reservoir)

Got everything ready to go last week, threw some 0W-30 in it and fired it up (BTW, this is a brand new engine). While it did start up almost instantly, it wasnt running well. At idle it stumbled (especially when cold), the oil pressure was low (at 800 RPM, we saw 100 KPa; a stock Cadillac ATS with the same engine at 800 rpm shows 300 KPa), and we were getting DTCs saying that both camshaft positions relative to the crank are out of whack (DTCs: P0016, P0017). We suspect the low oil pressure is causing the cam phasing to not work properly, causing the cams to not move to the desired angle, resulting in the crank-cam position DTCs. Our first course of action is to try thicker oil, either 5W-40 or 10W-60, and a new oil filter to see if we can bump up the oil pressure and solve the problem. If that doesn't work, we might check the timing chain to see if we installed it incorrectly or if it jumped a tooth or if the custom sprocket we had made is off, but that may only solve our DTC problem. Were not quite sure what to do to solve our oil pressure problem. We've also tried playing around with the pressure relief valve on the oil pump and that didnt do anything (kinda suspected it wouldnt but we tried anyways). If anyone has any ideas, that would be much appreciated.

 

[duperlf]

Back through the original filter location

 

[CWB1]

JMO but your oil pressure sounds normal for an idling aftermarket pump that appears to be "universal" to older engines. I would recommend separating the pump from the engine and driving it with an electric motor and VFD as common in dyno cells so you can independently control oil pressure. You can then crank up the motor speed/pressure temporarily to check if it solves your timing issue. You can also then troubleshoot the system without running the engine, looking for issues with foaming and pressure loss.

 

[Mr168]

This may be an obvious one, but are you certain that your oil lines going to the remote filter housing aren't backwards? If using braided lines, are you sure they're not kinked?

You may want to disassemble the bypass valve and make sure nothing is hanging open. I'm just not sure that the pump curve at the engine speeds you're describing are going to get you there with such a thin oil. Those pumps on race motors do not uncommonly see upper teens to low 20's at idle. Granted, they're seeing much wider bearing clearances than many modern OEM engines, but they're typically running a 20W-50 oil. That puts them safely in the 10psi/1000 RPM category, but they don't have pressure-driven cam/tensioner characteristics to worry about.

 

[gruntguru]

Again. The pressure vs engine rpm relationship does not look like a restriction. Looks more like leakage or a supply/demand deficit.

je suis charlie

 

[duperlf]

@Mr168, we checked the lines and everything is routed correctly and there aren't any kinks. Some of the lines are a little long and have some bends which may introduce a pressure drop, but i would imagine they're not where the majority of our pressure loss is coming from. We believe that we are getting sufficient flow through the engine, given that the pump is spinning quite fast (and is adequate for this engine), however the low pressure could be due to what you mentioned, that these pumps are meant to run with thicker oils due to the higher clearances.

@gruntguru we do have some slow leaks in some of our fittings, but i dont think they're significant enough to reduce the pressure that much.

On the bright side, we do believe we have found our cam/crank issue. The timing chain was off a tooth on the crank side, which correlated to an 8 deg difference in the cams relative to the crank. Hopefully this solves some of the DTC's were getting and the engine actually runs properly

 

[gruntguru]

High pump clearance plus thin oil = leakage. You might be on to it. You probably don't need to worry too much about the oil pressure as long as it is on the relief valve when the engine is under load.

je suis charlie

 

[LionelHutz]

I don't see any big issues with what how you built the system. So, step up the pump speed if you need or want more idle pressure. The pump should be fine as long as it doesn't have a maximum rpm limit you're exceeding. It has a pressure relief built-in to limit the maximum pressure so more rpm just means it circulates the oil internally more at maximum rpm.