Legal Question

[PMHPostman]

I had designed a control system, program the PLC, and develop the OIT screens for a certain customer. They required the logic and screens for validation. They also required panel layout drawings and schematics for their approval.

Do they have the right to take my design and programming and build several more control system just like it on their own?

I had put a copyright notice on one of the screens, anticipating this. I also have a disclaimer on each CAD drawing they received.

They say they can do whatever they want with it once they have it. I don't think so. There must be some protection.

Can they legally do this?

I clearly sold them the panel, not the design or the software.

 

[itsmoked]

Here's how it works. If they contacted you and paid you a penny to design any of something then they own the design. Yes they can do anything they want with it. And you have to be careful about reusing any of it.

If they came to you and said we want one of your AT56-27s here's the money. Then they did not pay for any of the design and have no rights to it's design.

Now, you can have a box with a bunch of features and a PLC in it with some standard functional code. They show up and want it to specifically mix egg nog. At this point you need to make sure your agreement in writing states that the fee you charge is a "configuration charge" and that they will own no rights to the code. At that point you need to use the PLC's password protection.


Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[PMHPostman]

I cant' really use the password protection. The program must be available for their validation.

 

[FrancisL]

You say
"I had designed a control system, program the PLC, and develop the OIT screens for a certain customer"
Even that statement implies that the work you did was for that customer and that they paid for it.
But it really depends on your contractual arrangement.
I can hardly believe that you completed the project before these issues came up. It is a very well known issue you should have covered it in your original quote.
Next time no doubt you will.

 

[PMHPostman]

You might see it as akin to buying a copy of Microsoft Office. If I buy a copy, it doesn't mean I can legally put it on two other machines. Of course, I'm not Microsoft and I didn't write office, but it's similar in a small scale. Or so I would imagine. The intention of the design was to supply one panel. If I were contracting to design so they could build their own panels, I would have quoted and priced it differently. They never stated or implied they were going to use the design/programming to build their own panels, but they might just do that.

 

[FrancisL]

You did not write Office, in fact it is not a reasonable comparision. Either technically or legally - when you buy Office you agree their terms.
When you sold your progam (or was it your time?) did you agree your terms?

Francis

http://www.controldraw.co.uk

http://www.s88control.blogspot.com

 

[itsmoked]

It's not even vaguely similar. Have you not read what I previously wrote? Or did you not understand it?

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[StephenVB]

One issue I see is the difference between what they can do and what they can legally do. If you would have to pay a lawyer more to fight them than you could ever get back there's no point in fighting it. Even if you get a lawyer and think you have a solid case you could still lose. And if you do fight the customer you pretty much eliminate any follow on business.

If your charges are reasonable they'd be silly to try and duplicate your work. If they don't have software and cables, they'd have to spend money to even copy the program. And then they have to build their own panels.

 

[dpc]

Unless this is specifically covered in your contract, I agree with itsmoked - you're SOL.

The best you could hope for is getting them to take your title block and name off the documents related to the other systems.





David Castor

http://www.cvoes.com

 

[cjw32]

I agree with itsmoked, if you're paid to design a system then you can't have your cake and eat it. However, the one aspect that you have in your favour is that they asked you to design and develop the panels. To me this would indicate one of two things, either they don't have the in-house expertise to design this kind of system or they don't have the time / resources available at the time to design the system. If either of those is the case then it's likely that they'll be in touch with you in the future if they're duplicating these systems.

From my own personal experience, the company I work for has had systems designed and then duplicated them in different plants. The people who were doing the duplicating did not configure the new systems correctly and we've ended up calling the original designer back in. I should point out that I wasn't involved in the original decision making, but was involved in trying to 'fix' these issues - and still am.

 

[PLCMentor]

I think there have been plenty of comments on making sure this was explicitly defined in your agreement. I would suggest going a step further, in the future, and developing a set of terms and conditions that you attach to all your quotes. You may still have some legal recourse depending on your situation. I have heard that in North Carolina, drawings are the property of the professional engineer/corp that developed them. I have not seen it written, and never seen a engineer force this issue. It may be worth looking into in your case. Of course if you are not registered to perform engineering in your location, then you may have bigger problems with the engineering board...

Russell White, P.E.
Automation Technologies, Inc.

http://www.AutomationNC.com

Automation Help

http://www.PLCMentor.com