Liability of designing dorm lofted beds 8

[cedarbluffranch]

I've been approached by a local university to create loft bed plans that they can provide to new students. I won't be making the beds themselves, just the plans.

What liability will I incur by doing this? How long will the liability last? How can I limit the liability?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You may not be totally protected from all lawsuits but at least the kids would have to sue the school and the school in turn sue you.

Because it's so much better to have an institution that already spends millions on lawyers every year attacking you than a single individual who may spend a couple $100k, right? ;-)

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[cedarbluffranch]

Don,

Thanks for your post. That was first post on this thread that actually answered my question and gave me an idea on how to consider this project.

I appreciate your sincere posting.

 

[PEinc]

Before designing furniture that could be mass produced and be used for many years by many, often irresponsible students, it might be good for an engineer to check with his or her professional liability insurance carrier. Mine frowns on designing products that will be used by many without my involvement. Frowning means either no insurance or higher premiums.

 

[Ron]

cedarbluffranch...you can incur significant liability from this unless you cover it well contractually and through your performance. A few examples...

Most beds are not designed by engineers; however, since you are a licensed engineer you are held to a higher standard of care than Joe Blow furniture designer. You now have a license on the line, whereas he has nothing but his assets. If you design a bed that has the same performance capabity as Joe Blow's bed and yours fails and causes injury or property damage, you now have a potential negligence claim against you....Joe doesn't have a negligence standard to meet so no big deal to him.

Next, if the plan is to be re-used, how long will this be done? It sounds like you will give up ownership of the design to the university, but you'll retain the liability for the concept and its implementation. That's not good contractually and you should avoid giving up ownership of your intellectual property. If you do so, you MUST make the design and specifications so tight that you will assure yourself that if followed, a failure would be almost impossible..can you do that?

The statute of repose for design is usually between 10 and 15 years in the states that address this. If your state doesn't have one...you're on the hook "forever".

You can limit your liability with good contract terms and conditions, but contracts are not foolproof and often get interpreted in ways you cannot imagine!

What are the standards you'll meet for the design? Are they established and nationally accepted? Do they actually exist?

There's nothing wrong with innovation and thinking outside the box; however, be aware that to do so opens you up to greater criticism and liability, often with your only recourse being through a tightly written contract, which unfortunately, you are not likely to get from a public agency.

 

[GBor]

I'm sorry, but I WISH I had something this easy as a young PE. Yes, there is liability...just for the record, you will ALWAYS have liability on your designs...that's part of the whole "professional registration".

How do you limit it? Place notes on the drawing to limit the longevity of the design or the loading. "Renew wooden parts annually". "Check fastener tightness monthly". "Insure wood grain is vertical". No one ever does these things and it reduces the chance that you will be seriously prosecutable. I'm not saying design everything with a loophole, but this is a golden opportunity with minimal potential repercussions.

As a PE, you have to take some liability, so make sure your design is robust and your notes reduce your liability to a risk that you are willing to take and comfortable that no one will get killed or injured. If you DON'T do it, someone less qualified might. To me, this is about as un-dangerous as it gets.

As for the kit planes...FAA approved, not PE (even DER's don't get the pleasure of completely approving an original TC, for those familiar with aero acronyms).

Garland E. Borowski, PE
Engineering Manager
Star Aviation

 

[cedarbluffranch]

Gbor, I agree that dorm lofts are low risk items. I've never heard in my college years of anyone getting injured from them and they are very straight forward design. And the designs are simple enough and common that it would be easy to prove whether a design was defective or not.

I work as a Flight Test Engineer so I'm certainly familiar with much higher risk work. Flying experimental aircraft at the boundary envelope is high risking, creating a simple drawing of a loft is not.

 

[GBor]

Your current job definitely sounds MUCH riskier. I've only been in the aviation industry for a few years. I owned an engineering firm prior to that, so to answer your original questions:

What liability to you incur? You are responsible for the design. While the fabrication is important, if anything ever happens to one of these beds, the lawyers will come after you. You will have to show that the design was not used in the manner that you intended or that it wasn't maintained in a manner that you clearly specified.

How long is this liability? For as long as the design is used. You can specify terms in the contract with the university that limit how long they can distribute the design without returning for your approval. For instance, in the contract, "The University has sole rights to this design indefinitely, but may only distribute drawings for 5 years without having the design reevaluated by me." You would really need a lawyer to get the right language.

How do you limit the liability? The statement above or any in my previous post will limit your prosecutability, but limiting your liability isn't really possible without assigning it to the University. Again, in the contract, "The University is solely responsible for insuring proper fabrication and product usage in accordance with these plans and accepts full responsibility for any failures due to improper fabrication or abuse." This at least makes it clear that you are not responsible for anything other than the design. You could also put a maximum exposure clause: "I am only responsible up to the cost of the design effort" (this basically means that you will refund their money if anything happens).

 

[spongebob007]

What could possibly go wrong you ask?

from:

http://www.stellaawards.com/caselog2.html

"College student falls out of bed and is slightly injured. He sues the bed manufacturer, and wins because the bed did not have a warning label."

Welcome to America, the land where common sense and personal responsibility are meaningless because everything bad that happens to you can be blamed on somebody else, and if you find a sleazy enough lawyer, you can turn your misfortune into huge profits!

 

[HamishMcTavish]

spongebob - read on in the case notes...the judge who heard the appeal quashed the verdict and his reasoning (from my memory of the original TSA post) was quite astounding for court in the USA...he said that "the hazard was obvious" and so didn't need warning signs.

As others have said this doesn't stop the OP from being dragged through court in the first place but it's a light at the end of the tunnel rather than someone with a torch bringing you more (insert appropriate expletive)...

Cheers HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[diarmud]

I'll guarantee a lawyer to defend you will be more than your fee.

I've been to court, putting in a contract a clause that limits your exposure to your works liability and/or your fee doesn't always work.

You should be consulting with a lawyer, not a bunch of engineers who think they know the law (get one who has worked on product liability).

 

[IRstuff]

Why would the OP need to go to someone to tell him the answer that he already knows?

And the fact that there's documented evidence that the OP doesn't know what design or safety standards to use shouldn't be a hindrance, either.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[garpe]

Liability goes forever, I have actually heard of cases where the liability extended the estate of a deceased engineer when the proximate cause of the failure was lack of maintenance by the owner. It sounds like the university is too cheap to do things the right way. Keep in mind that you can't just simply put out some drawings as a licensed engineer. Everything you produce has to have your seal on it. I am working on a case right now where a licensed PE, working for a manufacturer, is being sued personally for some BS that has yet to be proven. College students may not be as likely to sue but mommy and daddy will. They sue the university because their "contractual" relationship is with the institution. The U sues you and/or their insurance company goes after you through "subrogation." Remember how Duke treated the lacrosse team. There ain't no loyalty. RUN, don't walk away from this one.

Greg Robinson

 

[floattuber]

For the people wondering why students need plans to build bunk beds...my old university required all bunk beds to be built from a university approved design.

 

[Ron]

Greg...fortunately, liability does not run forever in most states. Most of them have a statute of repose which limits claims to a maximum time period. In my home state it is 10 years. It was 15 years until last year.

It varies from state-to-state, but generally is an attempt to limit the term of exposure of architects, engineers, and contractors.

 

[plasgears]

You might have some fun with this. Run a contest among the eng students. Others may want to jump in, too. Get the senior engrs to justify the designs structurally. Let the CE Eng dept faculty endorse and check the winning designs and calcs. Let the school pay a small stipend for the winning 1st, 2nd, and 3rd designs. The students gain competitive experience, the faculty discovers talent, the students have alternative designs to choose, and designers gain experience with possibly 'green' matls [e.g. recycled lumber, no paint]. All this activity beats lesser pursuits.