Listing current employer on resume

[ChadInColo]

I am in a situation nobody wants to be in. I am looking for a new job because of situations at work while still needing the job to pay bills. Basically I am in charge of a project building a product for a customer. Lately I have found several instances of questionable practices in the production.

One specifically chaps me, found out that a machined part had been welded then remachined because it was overcut. We don't have MRB authority, didn't have any authority to touch the part after it was machined incorrectly. When I found out, went to the plant manager and found he was aware, and told me I wasn't supposed to find out. Big red flag for me, time to move on. I don't want my name associated with that kind of work, when it's the upper management making the calls, I don't see how to change the atmosphere. I don't have my PE but definitely subscribe to engineering ethics.

So the question is, putting out resumes, is it acceptable to put "Company confidential" or something like that as my current employer? Or would that tend to get it round-filed? I'm in a relatively small market, don't really want my bosses to find out I am job shopping, already on a tight budget as it is with family, school bills...

By the way, that part did get scrapped, everyone involved knew my displeasure, but not the first time it has been attempted.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Just imagine what you _did't_ discover.

It should be acceptable to put "company confidential", or "manufacturer of widgets" or something like that on the resume.

The bigger problem is how to answer questions about why you want to leave. Don't answer on the resume. You can't say you had "ethical problems" without indirectly maligning the company, and you can't hesitate or give an answer that might be interpreted as evasive. Least awful response might be the traditional claptrap about wanting new challenges. To anyone else in the same industry, it might be okay to say you'd like to "do things differently", because they probably already know how things are done there. Whatever you come up with, practice saying it out loud until it rolls off the tongue with credibility and finality; you don't want to get involved in a discussion about why you are leaving a job; you need to keep focusing on how a prospective job fits you, and conversely.

In your situation, rather than broadcasting resumes, consider getting them into the hands of a few professional recruiters who specialize in your industry.



Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

 

[HgTX]

I'd be really leery of leaving out the company name--or are there some industries in which that's commonly done?

Most companies and recruiters understand the confidentiality needed when someone is looking for a new job while still in the old one. That's part of what "references available upon request" is about rather than just listing the contacts next to each job.

Hg

 

[Alphabits]

I'm in a similar situation myself, although I haven't observed any unethical practises, i'd like to move on to another company as i'm just getting the wrong vibe from this one. I've put my current employer on my resume, but i'm not offering any info other than what you'd find on the company's website (address, phone number, website link).

So far, I haven't had any uncomfortable questions from interviewers. Practise your replies, and make sure *you* believe them. If you're not convinced, you can't convince an interviewer.

 

[pmkPE]

It is entirely acceptable and I believe to your benifit to place the name of your current employer on your resume. It is in your cover letter that you should state that your present firm does not know of your desire to leave and therefore you would appreciate the company(s) that you are approaching to not contact them. This is done all of the time. In my past employment with a multi-discipline engineering firm and as a hiring manager I read numerous cover letters addressing this very same issue. I would have been sceptical of anyone that did not include their present employer's identity thinking perhaps that they were not actually employed.

 

[profengmen]

The only thing different on your resume, relating to all you past experiences, should be the date.... it would read your start date to "present".

Any company worth working for is going to know not to contact your current employer. Knowing what you do now is as relevant as knowing what you did later. It's all in the risk of leaving.

Now, why are you leaving? Would that part have failed just because it was welded? Are you perceived as a pain in the butt; is that why they work around you instead of with you?

 

[ChadInColo]

It's not so much that part, it's an atmosphere. That part would probably be fine, but the fact is, we didn't have the authority to do anything once a mistake was made. This is for a large aerospace company, my current employer is an aerospace machine shop trying to get into more integration and engineering. If the company got caught doing unauthorized repairs on an aerospace part, there would be hell to pay. I put that part in the bond room, it's not a use as is. I should take a torch to it, but need my job.

As MikeHalloran said, what HAVEN'T I discovered. This project is my responsibility, my name is on it. How would you react if someone changed one of your drawings without authorization, then when you confronted your boss, he said "you weren't supposed to find that". It isn't the first time I've caught something, I've tried to fix the system, the problem is that the upper management overrides the system on a regular basis, nobody on the floor says no because they sign the paychecks. My problem is with the ethics of the company, I know the company will attempt to sell parts that aren't what we say they are, for all I know we already have.

Thanks for the info on my real question guys, I hate to think I may lose out on a job opportunity because I don't list my employer, so probably put it on. The fact is, there aren't any other companies around that do the kind of work we do here, so most people in the area into engineering will more than likely know who the company is. I have no problem with explaining my wanting to leave, but prefer to do it face to face in an interview. Thanks again guys.

 

[ChadInColo]

Oh, and forgot to answer profengmen's question. If I am perceived as a pain in the butt to work with, it's because I follow the requirements of the contract. If there is a problem that is an MRB condition, it needs to get reported, not covered up. It takes time to go through the MRB process, and that is "not acceptable, just weld it up and go on". I am the first engineering precense in the company, I'm afraid I bring more ethics than the company is ready to deal with.

 

[profengmen]

Chad,
And because you are good at answering blunted questions, you should have no problem with interviewing; and no problem explaining why you are changing jobs, Therefore; no reason to leave it off whatsoever.

Good luck.

 

[HgTX]

I work in a QA function and I have to say I'm a little taken aback at profengmen's comment.

Whether it would have failed is not the issue. It's an unauthorized repair. Maybe it would have failed, maybe it wouldn't. That's really not the point. By doing unauthorized repairs they're introducing a possibility of failures. They get away with this one, what do they try next?

Authorization of repairs isn't just red tape. Sometimes those unauthorized repairs really do fail--unexpectedly. Because whoever took it upon themselves to do the repair didn't have all the information that the person who approves the repair has. A single improper welded repair can take down a structure.

I get this all the time: "So what if it doesn't meet the spec? The structure will still stand up." That's not what I bought, as the client. I bought something that meets a particular set of standards, not some lesser substitute that will still get the job done.

If Chad's company was my supplier and I found they'd done that, I'd make them not only replace the part but also hold them responsible for the cost of inspecting all products that use that part for evidence of unauthorized repair, and either replacing the part or determining through nondestructive testing that no harm was done.

Chad's absolutely right--his company's behavior is Not Cool.

Hg

 

[HgTX]

I have bad timing--I just read profengmen's second post. I knew there was a reason I thought better of profengmen and was surprised to see that first post. Fooled me!

Hg

 

[profengmen]

HgTx,
It wasn't a comment, it was a simple question. I thought you QA guys paid attention to details....

We were just looking for clarification, not everything is black and white you know. Just looking into his personality, it has nothing to do with the qualification of parts.

 

[HgTX]

I'm just the engidork behind the real inspectors anyway...what do I know about detail?

But it hit a button (and not just because as a PITB myself I took personal offense). The better the inspector, the more complaints we get about him on a personal level. Not that no inspector ever has personality problems, but suppliers are generally eager to condemn the inspector rather than acknowledge that what he's finding is legitimate. I'm struggling with one of those situations right now and it's on my mind.

Plus I've dealt with the fallout of a failed unauthorized repair (fortunately not a major structural collapse but it could have been), so that's another button.

Chad is clearly a more even-tempered soul than I.

Hg

 

[profengmen]

HgTx,
now yer just cracking me up...

The best guy I work with is our QA guy, I try to get him to work in engineering all the time...but he's smarter than that. Oh, he bugs me.....when he measures to the knats arse....but ya gotta love it. Together we fix a lot of defects.

I was hoping this thread would die, but I got to thinking about Chad....

Chad,
You know, if your community is as small as you claim, try not to fall into that “gotta get out” trap that spoils motivation. Try to maintain that integrity and ask yourself how you can best change that “weld it” culture you work in now. It might not be necessary to switch jobs if you can be the change agent, be the one to set those people straight and keep the rest of us safe. If you leave, who will be the one there making sure stuff gets done right? You really don’t sound like a pushover, you don’t sound stupid so is there something you can do to get into the upper management and be one of those guys that makes the decisions the right way?

I say this only to stop you from being a "hopeless" quitter. (meaning...this is hopeless, I quit) There is nothing wrong with finding a new job, I look all the time, I interview a few times a year, but I have no reason to leave my job. I have my current employer on all my resumes and I always expect my current employer to find out. If he ever asks me why I’m sending my resume out or taking phone interviews, I just plan on saying this, “I don’t have any intentions of leaving the company at this time, I just feel that this is a good way to manage my career, to stay out in the public eye just in case, don’t you think that’s smart?”

So stay there any try to make a difference while you look for a job, and don’t be afraid to get caught looking. You never know; someone might take notice of your integrity and move you up to the position you look at with disgust right now… then you don’t have to move.

Think of how pissed I'd be if something fell off a plane and hit my wife in the head... all the time wondering if it was a welded part that you would have rejected IF you would have kept that job... hmmmmm

 

[Thane]

Sounds like a great situation to get out of. I was in a similar situation with an aircraft company. I was a member of the MRB for the aircraft company and spent about 85% of my time fighting with production to perform what I thought was the correct repair to a discrepant part. The amount of pressure to perform a sub-standard repair just to get the part out of the door was enormous. Someone on the MRB is legally liable for that repair until the part is scrapped. Production didn't care about my liability. They just wanted to get their part or assembly out the door at all cost in order to meet schedule.

I placed my aircraft company employer on my resume and told any prospective employer why I wanted to change jobs. I think that my current employer appreciated my honest response and rewarded me with a job.

 

[ChadInColo]

Well, I was happy to let this thread die as profengmen suggested, but want to update everyone and say thanks for the advice. This is the best engineering forum I have found, wish I could support it more.

I've been trying to fight the good fight, keep the project rolling and keep everything right, and have hit wall after wall...

Now my weld inspection agency has given notice they will stop inspection soon due to lack of payment (approximately 90 days on some invoices, news to me), have a company that sold us a machine upset because the owner of my company doesn't feel he's getting the support from them he should and so goes to his buddy at the corporate office and complains, while he doesn't ask to find out I am talking to my guy there at least weekly, more if need be. My guy got in trouble for "not supporting us", isn't happy with me...my name and reputation (which since I like to consider myself and try to be a professional is important to me) is starting to take hits. We are starting to ramp production, and instead of hiring the people to help get parts assembled, everyone's overtime was eliminated due to cash flow problems, so my customer is upset we aren't making progress, I can't tell him "we can't afford to work on your project right now"...need I go on???

Time to cut losses, anybody want to offer tips to finding a new job? Sorry for the venting, but if anyone can offer tips, I would appreciate it.