Looking for design standards regarding naming convention of signal/control wiring 2

[WellWhatHadHappenedWas]

I'm trying to find a standard I can reference for naming wiring in an electrical design. I currently am looking at an electrical design for a powered gate submitted by a contractor and they haven't labeled any of the signal wiring used. It's not a crazy big install but I don't want to come back to it in 5 years for troubleshooting and have nothing labeled! I looked in the codes and standards section of this forum, as well as searched IEEE but couldn't find anything. I'm guessing it'll be an ANSI, or IEC standard. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[xnuke]

I know of no published standard for naming wiring. It is usually a customer standard or a consultant standard.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Bill West]

A gate control is not complicated enough to need wire names. As long as the device terminal numbers/wire lead colours are on the schematic it should be easy to understand. If a wiring diagram is made then colours would be good, especially for wires going into cables or number tags for loose wire in conduit.

I did 20-40 panel substation switchboards where there would be a hundred circuits and a thousand wires. We could only reasonably colour the wires to distinguish DC, AC-VT, AC-CT and ground functions. This is where a wire numbering system is needed. An industrial motor control center is another good example. In both cases xnuke's point about local practice applies.

Bill

 

[waross]

It is a great help to have the same number on both ends of each wire.
I once had to trouble shoot a machine where each wire had a different number on each end.
All the terminals had unique numbers.
The wires were numbered according to the terminal to which they were connected.
So a wire between terminal 4 and terminal 27 would have a 4 on one end and a 27 on the other end.
I can only guess that it was so they could hire barely literate workers to assemble the panels.
Trouble shooting was challenging!

I arranged my circuits into ladder diagrams.
The line were numbered sequentially.
Line #1 would be numbered thus:
The wire from line one to the first device would be #10,
The wire from the first device to the second device would be #11,
So, any wire number from 10 to 19 would be in line 1 of the ladder diagram.
Any wire from 20 to 29 would be in the second line of the ladder diagram, etc.
Then, under each set of relay contacts was the line number of the relay coil controlling those contacts.
And down the right hand side of the ladder diagram would be a series of numbers beside each relay coil, indicating in which lines were contacts controlled by that relay.

I was on holiday in Vancouver when I received a call from a refinery in Toronto.
A PLC panel that I had designed had gone down and locked up.
It was an obscure program bug.
Thanks to the numbering system I was able to follow the diagram over tha phone and draw enough of the diagram to find the trouble and suggest a temporary fix.
I never could have done it without the index numbers.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[Hoxton]

In the old days in the UK we used this. I was convinced that it had been converted to a British Standard, but I cannot find it. Does any imperialist know? Is there no USA equivalent?

 

[waross]

I'll meet you halfway on this Hoxton.
In the case of industrial sequence control that is predominantly one voltage and where a ladder type diagram is appropriate, I prefer my system.
In the case of a generator control system or any system with a substantial mix of voltages, AC and DC, and various functions, your numbering system may be more appropriate. lps for that link.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[waross]

Does any imperialist know? Is there no USA equivalent?

I once had a copy of the NEMA standards published in the early 70's.
If I ever find it I will check.
Don't hold your breath. It may be in storage in British Columbia, it may be in the basement in Alberta, it may have been left behind in Central America or it may have been lost.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[stevenal]

IEEE C37.2 has the codes for device functions.

 

[FreddyNurk]

Hoxton, that standard got included in a previous iteration of AS2067 here, and was in use for a lot of electrical panels for quite some time.
There was an older iteration of an IEC standard around that had something similar for control circuits but it had since been superseded by a different IEC standard that effectively allows the user to make up their own with various letters strung together for device and function identifiers.

EDMS Australia

 

[prc]

C57.148-2011 Control Cabinets for Power Transformers -gives terminal marking and wire marking codes. C37.2 gives the general device numbering system as per IEEE.C37.21-2017 gives control switch boards

 

[ScottyUK]

Hi Hoxton,

BEBS-12 is now ENATS TS 50-19, yours for £45 from the ENA.

 

[controlsdude]

NFPA 79 has a standard for machinery. It does go into these issues. But most companies pick and choose the standards and modify it to their wants and needs in presenting standard documentation on drawings.

Just remember a label maker can only display a visible wire number that is 8-10 letters long that is readable on a wire. This would be a wire that is 14 gauge wire that is THHN coating for example.

Typical format I usually see where there is multiple cabinets in a facility

Example: This is usually the case of the wire number follows the drawing sheet.
A-BBB20202A
A = CC A or MCP A, cold also just be a 2 digit number for a cabinet
BBB = nomenclature that describes a type of device. NFPA 79 has descriptions of devices or this is a sheet in drawing general notes or 1st 5 sheets of drawing package that lists 3 TLA (three letter acronym) that describes a device.
- = separation of cabinet to drawing
20202 = drawing line number, this can be 4-7 digits
A = wire number after going thru device at that line number.