Lot grading, water percolation & french drain on the property line along the fence..How2 drain t 5

[MiniMe4Eng]

I am now trying to understand if the current water drainage on my lot is wrong. The previous owner excavated the soil around the house and he probably spread the soil around the house in the backyard

Also my neighbor's property is on a higher grounds and I suspect his drainage is not 100% fair.

Below you have a representation of the rear side of the house, the left side house is mine.!

**The purple line** is the general slope of the terrain, as mentioned my neighbor's house is on grounds slightly higher than mine.

**The blue and brown lines** show the backyard general grading. The 8' strip that you see along my patio is not sloped correctly and I intend to fix that.

**The patio** drains toward the red spot where I intend to install a catch basin and I plan to drain that to a dry well south east of that corner

**Problems**

-the yellow line on my neighbors garage is a gutter that he extended on the soil and that currently drains on his property on the paved walkway that you see there

-by design both properties seem to drain the water toward the property line and that should at least affect the fence. As a matter of fact one of the poles is completely cut (rotten) at he base

-I believe that under the soil (subgrade) the water moves toward my house anyway due to the general slope of the terrain

**Questions:**

1. Looking at the measurements of the space between the garages **do you think that the water that the water that comes out his gutter (yellow on the figure) will infiltrate the soil and move laterally toward my property and my garage?** Just next to the garage the former owner built a small parking lot, paved with precast concrete blocks and I suspect that the base of that parking spot will suck all the water that makes it to it. Am I too worried about this?

2. Looking over the fence at my neighbor's patio one can easily see that when he built that he accentuated the slope and that now all that water drains toward the fence. I think that the only remedy here is to build a french drain along the fence which I should drain in the dry well that is in the plans for the patio. Is this a correct plan? **Will this french drain affect the fence in any way?**

3. **Is the distance between the fence and my house long enough to keep my house safe from that water which probably collects underground on the property line?** (not sure where it goes from there)

 

[oldestguy]

A few points missed. Is there a basement and is there a water problem, there? If there is surface water on your lot during rain, what is your concern about that? In other words what is your main concern that you want fixed?

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

This is my main concern

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=389727

I dp not think that this is a water table problem
That corner showed in the other thread is wet (efflorescence and capilarity) ONLU one one side of the corner
If it is a water table problem in should be on both sides

 

[oldestguy]

OG here again. Yup I thought this post was somewhat familiar.

As for me now, I've added enough. Maybe others will jump in.

 

[Twinkie]

I have looked at both of your threads, and honestly, this is almost a full-scale design job that you are trying to do via the forums. I think you are out of the advice column and into the "you need to hire someone" column.

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

Don't get scared by my diagrams
I am an engineer too and I know my limits
I need an educated opinion not a design
I just asked three simple questions, what is to design here?


As far as I am concerned my neighbor might need to hire an designer if I come to the conclusion that his water gets on my property. There is nothing that I can do on my property to prevent the water from his property to head to mine (if that happens).
In the mean time I learned (without hiring a designer) that a french drain should be used mostly in saturated soils where the water tends to accumulate or pool

 

[Twinkie]

You need to have this property surveyed before you do anything else. The distance between garages is of little concern, the slope of the land is. Is there a channel or swale down the property line? Even so, a 20x10 garage just isn't producing a whole lot of runoff. Why do you want to build a French drain? Does the lot not drain once the water hits the property line? Let the grade of the lot do the work. But again, you need a topographic survey of this area if you really want some decent advice or design help.

I wouldn't be too concerned with his runoff moving laterally to your house, unless there is some perched layers here? Impossible to know without further investigation.

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

That downspout collects the water for half of the house roof, not for the garage only. The house roof has a short downspout to the garage's gutter.
There is no swale. Probably there was one but the people just covered that with the fence and more soil
I am not sure that I understand what a topographic survey will bring me, what do they provide you when you ask for one?

 

[Twinkie]

A survey is going to show you the definitive drainage patterns on the lots. You can't really do any type of drainage analysis without one.

Try to see if you can get LIDAR contours at least for the site. If this gets contentious with the neighbor, he may not let you survey his property anyway.

 

[cvg]

**do you think that the water that the water that comes out his gutter (yellow on the figure) will infiltrate the soil and move laterally toward my property and my garage?**

groundwater will spread in all directions, irrespective of the slope of the surface. it will follow the path of least resistance and will go downward unless it hits a clay or rock layer. it will not turn and go towards your garage

Looking over the fence at my neighbor's patio one can easily see that when he built that he accentuated the slope and that now all that water drains toward the fence. I think that the only remedy here is to build a french drain along the fence which I should drain in the dry well that is in the plans for the patio. Is this a correct plan? **Will this french drain affect the fence in any way?**

there are other options (berms, pipes, swales) and a french drain would not by my first one

**Is the distance between the fence and my house long enough to keep my house safe from that water which probably collects underground on the property line?**

see the first point, water does not "collect" underground

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

groundwater will spread in all directions, irrespective of the slope of the surface. it will follow the path of least resistance and will go downward unless it hits a clay or rock layer. it will not turn and go towards your garage

The above is the key for my problem
I have two paved surfaces with limestone screening only as base (no gravel)
These limestone layers (under the paved area where you see the boat and under the patio) are both near an area where the water from my neighbor could go (lowest point on his property is the fence line, which is also my highest) The paved area under the boat in next to the area where he drops his rain water from the garage, right in the middle of the paved walkway next to his garage

I have no idea if that water could make its way into the limestone screening layer under the pavement that is under my boat.

With less chances the same could happen with the layer that is under the patio

 

[oldestguy]

OG once more.

I look at the discussion here and your other post and I give a similar example for your consideration.

There once was a very experienced carpenter who built all sorts of buildings and they all performed
well, met codes because he researched the materials and educated himself on rudimentary design, almost to the point
you could say he might qualify for a PE license. However, he had one recent problem and decided he would post
a question on Eng. Tips.com in the electrical engineering forums. He had been drilling a lot of holes for
anchoring structures into concrete slabs. Darn if he kept burning out his electric drills powered by a
portable generator about 300 feet away from the work. Early versions of the drills were made in
China so he figured he had better look to those made in the USA. Even then, with some of the most
expensive drill, the darn cheap things, kept burning up. He wanted to know what brand would not burn up.
The comments he got on his post dealt more with
the kind of extension cord he was using, but he then brought up other factors, maybe generator was too
low a rating, even though its meter said 110 v when under load. A return to the forum and questioned how he
could evaluate that generator. Some one then asked the wire size of his extension cords.

He replied the wires were certainly long enough and even an extra 50 feet was available for moving around the site.
So it goes on and on with him not wishing to replace his extension cords, since they were a gift from his father
and his dad never had any trouble with them.

When asked if he had any electrician friends that might help him, he couldn't see any reason, since he did all his
own wiring and they passed inspection. He knew enuff about that subject. Now all he wanted to know was the best electric drill to buy.

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

OG once more.

I look at the discussion here and your other post and I give a similar example for your consideration.

There once was a very experienced carpenter who built all sorts of buildings and they all performed
well, met codes because he researched the materials and educated himself on rudimentary design, almost to the point
you could say he might qualify for a PE license. However, he had one recent problem and decided he would post
a question on Eng. Tips.com in the electrical engineering forums. He had been drilling a lot of holes for
anchoring structures into concrete slabs. Darn if he kept burning out his electric drills powered by a
portable generator about 300 feet away from the work. Early versions of the drills were made in
China so he figured he had better look to those made in the USA. Even then, with some of the most
expensive drill, the darn cheap things, kept burning up. He wanted to know what brand would not burn up.
The comments he got on his post dealt more with
the kind of extension cord he was using, but he then brought up other factors, maybe generator was too
low a rating, even though its meter said 110 v when under load. A return to the forum and questioned how he
could evaluate that generator. Some one then asked the wire size of his extension cords.

He replied the wires were certainly long enough and even an extra 50 feet was available for moving around the site.
So it goes on and on with him not wishing to replace his extension cords, since they were a gift from his father
and his dad never had any trouble with them.

When asked if he had any electrician friends that might help him, he couldn't see any reason, since he did all his
own wiring and they passed inspection. He knew enuff about that subject. Now all he wanted to know was the best electric drill to bu

probably there is a morale here but I am not getting it. What are you trying to tell me?

 

[oldestguy]

I gave up before and now won't be back.

 

[Twinkie]

Post of the year, OG!

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

Being ironical does not help me at all
Continuing to recommend (to me and to others) the bentonite solution sounds like "put some Windex" (see "My big fat Greek weeding")
cvg had constructive solutions and recommendations

I still need (remember that I am an engineer too) to understand the solution and it has to be practical for me
Failing to provide that and resorting to ironies does not make you look better.
Some of our teachers in university used to tell us that if you are not able to explain a solution in layman's terms you do not understand the solution or the technology

I hope that now we are even and you will stop giving high fives to each other for the subtlety of your jokes

 

[beej67]

I still need (remember that I am an engineer too) to understand the solution and it has to be practical for me

Let me break it down for you:

Your question is like asking what capacitor you need in a PCB without showing us a wiring diagram. We're all just guessing until you show us topo.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

OK here is a link that will give some idea about where I live and the geology of the area

http://trca.on.ca/dotAsset/55381.pdf

 

[fattdad]

(I hate to get involved. . . )

You seem bothered by poor surface water management. Drop inlets are effective if you have gravity drainage.

You also seem to think it's a ground water problem - i.e., you have a thread about deep well dewatering. O.K., I guess. . . Not sure what that ultimately accomplishes.

Let's say the soil is wet - so what!?! I mean geotechnical efforts need to be weatherproof. Foundation soils get wet. A good engineering program considers the strength of soils (i.e., bearing soils) under saturated conditions. So, if the soil gets wet, that should already be the limiting design constraint.

Let's say the design was not great. What can we do. . . ?

Bummer about standing water. I get that. You seem to have issues on your property that are not easily addressed by the fora. Seems folks are trying though.

f-d

ípapß gordo ainÆt no madre flaca!

 

[MiniMe4Eng]

I fixed what I could and now I have to see if there is anything else that I can fix
I am waiting for a heavy rain to see if the smell comes back in my basement
The weather is very dry around here right now but my wall is still showing wet spots
I am not sure how long it needs to dry and if what I am seeing is due to humidity that is still getting out (maybe accelerated by the excessive dry weather) or what I am seeing is simply a problem that is due to a high water table
I can not detect anything wrong beyond the walls at floor level in basement. I removed the power outlets and tried to see if the wet smells or the "basement smell" comes out through that but no...it is not.

So I do not know that to think right now. I will just have to wait till the weather helps me to isolate the issue here.