Magnetic fields and hypersensitivity 4

[Skogsgurra]

Today, I listened to a guy that claims that he is hypersensitive to magnetic and electric fields. I have followed that discussion for more than ten years and although the authorities say that there is no evidence that normal ELF fields have any influence on the human body, there are always individuals that claim that they get sick in very modest magnetic fields.

I have tried to make some of these people show their "ability" (as I see it, disease - as they see it) by telling when a coil is energized or not. The field strength is kept ridiculously low. In the 1 microtesla region and below. So far, no one has volunteered. Most saying that they can get very sick - perhaps even die from the field.

What is the situation in other countries? What limits does the OSHA and its sister organisations in different countries set, if any? Is (hyper)sensitivity to magnetic and electric fields known all over the world? Is it something that people are "educated" into and that gets worse the more it is talked about?

I need to know.

 

[Myndex]

With years of testing in MRI research (about the strongest magnetic fields around) there have been found to be no physiological effects from human interaction with these fields.

In otherwords, it's superstition.


However, in regards to alternating fields, there is a measurable effect as the frequency of the field increases. There is no doubt that high frequency fields can result in death if the intensity is high enough (i.e. don't put your poodle in the microwave).


I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to develop a double blind test to prove/disprove these hypochondriacs.





A

 

[IRstuff]

Skogs.

LOL! given that the earth's field is well in excess of the value you quoted, they should already be dead!

TTFN

 

[Skogsgurra]

Yes, it's 52 microtesla in our place. But it is a DC field. And that is something that all living creatures have adopted to over the year-millions.

Yes, that is the official explanation. It is the ELF that makes them sick - or that they claim make them sick.

 

[IRstuff]

It might be amusing to conceal a functioning coil on you the next time you meet up with one of them. See if you can make them react ;-)

TTFN

 

[buzzp]

Sounds like we have another "free" place to get electricity - find some buried cable.
Have you guys looked at the latest newsletter from Mike Holt? They have an interesting chart of electrical and magnetic field intensities. Check it out (may have already been published somewhere else).

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarc...ing-Electric-and-Magnetic-Fields~20050218.php

 

[ScottI2R]

Skogs,
I HAVE experience in this particular subject in the real world! It seems, that during my (divorced) Bachelor years, I rented a room to a person that I had grown up with from elementary school. He IS definately a victim of the fields created by HV power lines! Jeez, and my Son actually accused him of eating too many paint chips as a child!

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[jraef]

I said this in another thread, but I'll say it again. If there were anything to this, we would see some sort of epidemiological evidence of it in the population of electrical industry workers. Most, including myself, are exposed to EM fields far far in excess of anything the average person is. There is none that I can find.

I have stood next to 400MVA transformers and 15,000HP 13.8kV motors being started up, and I didn't feel my hair stand up, nor any tingling, nor any flashes of lights in my eyes. I have, however, had some of those symptoms when I was NOT near any strong electrical fields. So by that evidence, I could conclude that NOT being in a strong EM field can be unhealthy!

My sister (the ex-hippie) believes that rubbing her belly with a polished green stone she bought from a "healer" relieves her monthly cramps. She holds a Masters' Degree in Occupational Psychology, so she is no simpleton by any means, but I cannot shake her belief that this stone has a special healing "aura". I suppose that when some people get an idea in their minds, no amount of scientific evidence will shake them off of their position.

"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"

 

[Skysoldier]

I live in New Mexico, home of the Sante Fe hippies. The
town is full of shops that sell crystals and magnetic bracelets. They are all full of bunk!
Even scientific people buy into this crap, putting fear into the public about electromagnetic fields. But if you
want to really study it, test the guy's that work on the
deck of aircraft carriers. (The most hostile EMP environment there is)
Thonk about it!

 

[Myndex]

Why are aircraft carriers the most hostile?


What about a satellite transmission antenna farm?


Or inside a microwave oven?


Heh.


A

 

[IRstuff]

Personally, I don't make it a habit to walk around the inside of a microwave, operating or otherwise.

It's actually unclear whether a aircraft carrier or a Aegis cruiser is worse. In any case, per MIL-STD-464, the transient radar environment in naval applications includes fields in excess of 20000 V/m. Bear in mind that the standard EMP environment is specified to be only on the order of 50000 V/m

TTFN

 

[jsummerfield]

I have a high voltage transmission line behind my house.
Besides lighting, my home has multiple televisions, computers, radios and other appliances.
As a ham radio operator I used using vacuum tube transmitters in my youth.
My office has more lights and computers, etc. and fewer appliances.
I often work in plants with large AC motors and low-voltage instrumentation.
.
.
Now 56, I have become overweight, experienced dental problems and routinely experience aching joints and other occasional maladies.
.
.
.
A logical conclusion is that exposure to electrical fields causes weight gain and assorted medical issues.

John

 

[Skogsgurra]

Yes, John.

It is logical, isn't it? I have also lost hair and keep forgetting things as a result of electricity. ;-)

And life expectancy has risen from a low 40 years 100 years ago to about 75 years. All as a result of exposure to electric fields - that didn't exist hundred years ago. ;-) ;-) ;-) (Three to make obvious what I mean)

 

[buzzp]

I think fields have different affects on people. Most are not affected but I do believe some are, kind of like an allergy.

I have a friend that was in the Coast Gaurd and he told me some stories of birds flying in front of their radar, they would immediately drop out of the sky, pretty much dead before they hit the water.

 

[Skogsgurra]

There is a "slight" difference between the strong micro-wave field from a radar and the mild low-frequency field from a power line. The ratio between power densities are something like 10^24 with the radar being the stronger.

It seems to be a strategy among "field-allergic" individuals to use an observation with one set of parameters as a proof for something that happens in a totally different setting. Not accusing you, buzzp. Just a general observation.

 

[Myndex]

And life expectancy has risen from a low 40 years 100 years ago to about 75 years.

Actually, that's "life expectancy at birth". most deaths occurred with infants than at any other age, 100 years ago. Obviously when someone less than a year old dies, it has a dramatic effect on the average age.

The most significant change over the last 100 years was not an increase in mean life span after infancy, but a vast reduction in the infant mortality rate.

If you dismiss infant mortality, you'll find the average lifespan 100 years ago was only a few years different than today.

And in other news, I hear aluminum foil hats do wonders.....

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

A

 

[VEBill]

People with hypersensitivity to EMF <smirk> should stay away from stove-top electric burners, electrically-powered power tools, electric razors, and any other similar device.

The EM field from these devices (unlike powerlines) can be strong enough to make a small, strong magnet vibrate very strongly.

 

[IRstuff]

Wonder how they'd react to an induction cooker?

TTFN

 

[Skogsgurra]

Thanks Myndex! I have forwarded the AFDB link to a friend(?) that believes in such things.

 

[jraef]

"People with hypersensitivity to EMF <smirk> should stay away from stove-top electric burners, electrically-powered power tools, electric razors, and any other similar device."

Here's an interesting thought. I wonder if anyone has done a study of Amish people compared to the general population with regards to ill effects of EM fieds? For those of you unfamiliar with them, the Amish are a religious group in the US and Canada who shun the use of any powered devices, electric or otherwise.

&quot;Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi&quot;