Magnetic fields and hypersensitivity 4

[Skogsgurra]

Today, I listened to a guy that claims that he is hypersensitive to magnetic and electric fields. I have followed that discussion for more than ten years and although the authorities say that there is no evidence that normal ELF fields have any influence on the human body, there are always individuals that claim that they get sick in very modest magnetic fields.

I have tried to make some of these people show their "ability" (as I see it, disease - as they see it) by telling when a coil is energized or not. The field strength is kept ridiculously low. In the 1 microtesla region and below. So far, no one has volunteered. Most saying that they can get very sick - perhaps even die from the field.

What is the situation in other countries? What limits does the OSHA and its sister organisations in different countries set, if any? Is (hyper)sensitivity to magnetic and electric fields known all over the world? Is it something that people are "educated" into and that gets worse the more it is talked about?

I need to know.

 

[analogkid2digitalman]

The comparison of Amish to general population may be skewed-the Amish tend to lead a lot healthier lifesytle. Less processed foods (ever eat Amish raised chicken? DELICIOUS without all those growth hormones ), less if any smoke and drink, more physical labor. These factors may totally mask the EM effects, if there truly are any in the 'everday' environment.

Wheels within wheels / In a spiral array
A pattern so grand / And complex
Time after time / We lose sight of the way
Our causes can't see / Their effects.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Getting off of the main subject, but I've often wondered how the Amish prevent their bloodlines from becoming stagnant. There are a limited number in the states (and Canada, too... estimates put them at less then 200,000), they don't travel between communities often, and marry between communitites even less.

[edit] Just found this on the web. It seems they ARE running into genetic problems, including dwarfism, mental retardation and a large group of metabolic disorders. One in 200 have glutaric aciduria type I; they are born healthy, but can experience permanent neurological damage when a mild illness strikes.


Sorry, back to the main discussion.... I just like learning about all kinds of stuff.


Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[buzzp]

I was not implying that radar was even remotely close to the same thing as fields from current flow or voltage potentials. Someone brought it up and I wanted to share the bird killing story.

I happen to think that some people are affected by fields but certainly not most people.

Just some considerations for those investigating, I have a lady in our office who claims she is affected. She believes its because of all the metal in her mouth (fillings and such). I don't know but seems like it should be investigated further. I do not believe that merely having fillings causes issues. The result of her being exposed is a different kind of headache. She seems to be affected more in the IT rooms (server, UPS, etc) and in the powerplant. Just thought I would share this. It does not mean I support her theory.

 

[VEBill]

When she feels affected, does sho go home and crawl into bed - cozy under her electric blanket?

Point is, it is pretty clear that these people are affected by what they see and think, not by actual EM field strength.

 

[buzzp]

I would like to say I agree with you VE but I can't say I do 100%. Never really researched it. An electric blanket has no where near the intensity of fields found in a powerplant so your analogy was wasted. I don't see how anything related to this subject is "clear". The only thing bouncing around is heresay (including my contributions).

Its kind of like those that are sensitive to smells. What physical make-up makes some that smell perfume break out with a migraine headache? I can't explain it. Maybe some doctors have, dont know. But it certainly is widely accepted that some do suffer from certain smells.

 

[Barry1961]

Wow, this has got me worried now!! I think I am showing the signs of long term EM poisoning!! I will see what other info I can find about it and possible class action suits. Guess I will search the web "with head close to monitor" and listen for news about it on TV and radio.

Maybe the government should start BROADCASTING warnings about EM poisoning just in case, as a public service.

Barry1961

 

[IRstuff]

Speaking of which, what exactly does "fishy-tasting" mean? My wife and I have this on-going failure to communicate, because I have no clue what she tastes when she says something is "fishy," particularly when it IS fish.

TTFN

 

[VEBill]

Give her a small powerful magnet to carry around - perhaps strapped to her wrist. She'll be fleeing her electric stove the first time that she fries eggs.

 

[logbook]

Hyper-sensitivity is not a nice condition to have and the worry is that we may trigger such a condition by continued exposure to fields. I saw a TV program a long time ago about a group of people who were hyper-sensitive to solvents. Their lives were made miserable by solvent amounts which normal people easily tolerate.

I myself don’t use a mobile phone near my ear because it makes my face tingle. The boss where I work said the same thing. I use my phone in speaker phone mode more like a Star trek communicator. Anyway it may be psycho-somatic --- but is still unpleasant.

I went to a lecture at the UK National Physical Laboratory given by a Fellow of the Royal Society and she has great experience with people who are hyper-sensitive to electric/magnetic fields. Some of these people have extreme physical reactions to such fields (skin rashes for example). Of course one could easily play the psycho-somatic card again. Nevertheless I think you guys should broaden your horizons and be willing to consider non-conventional answers.

By all means experiment if you can find a suitable victim.

 

[buzzp]

I suppose you would argue against cell phones causing damage as well? It is not proven whether they do or not but certainly is a hotter topic electric fields. This one I believe could cause damage in some people.

Its funny how closed minded some are. Especially since history tells us that most noteworthy ideas/inventions were basically laughed at by their colleauges at the time.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I am not convinced that fields cause any problems but I see it being possible.

VE, I dont see the correlation (or the joke) in your last post. How does a magnet have anything to do with an electric stove? Oh well, guess that its over (or under) my head (thankfully).

 

[ScottI2R]

Buzzp,
A word about the lady in your office. Does she happen to sit in the immediate vicinity of a photocopier? These devices use high voltage supplies that create ozone. A poorly maintained unit probably has old ozone filters and is expelling the additional ozone into the office space. This IS known to cause headaches and nausea. Of course, this doesn't explain why it happens in the powerplant but I thought I would just share this little bit of info.
Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[Skogsgurra]

Cell phones have a rather high SAR. There are very real thermal effects from a cell phone.

That is not what we are discussing here. It is weak electric or magnetic fields. Fields that are 10^18 - 10^21 times weaker than the near field from a cell phone.

I think that we shall be honest here. Radar, cell phones, micro ovens (the interior) are not without dangers. But a field that is 0.000 000 000 000 000 001 times a typical cell phone field has not been demonstrated to have any physiological effects and hypersensitive people have not been able to tell if the field is present or not.

And it is these fields (in the 1 microtesla range) that hypersensitive people claim that they are affected by.

Perfumes and other chemical influences are something else. There are well understood mechanisms in the receptory system and the sensitivity to cats, perfumes, medicines and other substances is well understood and tests can be performed with repeatable results. The low field sensitivity is something else.

No well controlled experiments have shown that such a sensitivity exists. But lots of "Uri Geller type" experiments have shown that they do. Which one do you trust? The scientist looking for evidence or the con man trying to make money from superstition?

 

[VEBill]

"How does a magnet have anything to do with an electric stove?"

Assuming that you have, or can borrow, one of those small powerful magnets - hold it in your hand over the electric stove element and turn on the stove. You will (probably) be amazed at the amount of physical vibration caused by the strong (and real) EM field surrounding the stove electric burner.

Now, go outside and try the same thing with power lines. You'll probably have to climb the darn tower to find anything even close to what exists in your kitchen.

The point is that I've seen waaay too much evidence that these people are reacting to what they see. They have no idea where strong EM fields really do exist in their own house.

 

[Myndex]

The point is that I've seen waaay too much evidence that these people are reacting to what they see.  

Perhaps it's what they hear? The "hum" of a substation, or power lines on a humid day may have much to do with the perceived threat. If you can hear it, it's much scarier. Like things that go bump in the night.

I think this is because we equate sound with some kind of physical force or action.


...Another 2 cents for the pot...

A

 

[SolderingGunslinger]

Perception is everything...or so my cousin who works on Madison Avenue says.

Case in point:

I have a friend who shall remain nameless who put up a wonderful crank-up/Fold over tower with a large HF Yagi antenna on top. He raised the tower to vertical and cranked it up to its greatest extension.

The antenna had been up for about two days when one of the neighbors called to complain that her television was being interfered with. The neighbor didn't believe that it wasn't his antenna and called the other neighbors who also were having their TVI. Each of them called to complain, he assured them that it wasn't him. The next call came from the FCC requesting that he allow them to inspect his station, as they had received interference reports from from several miles away.

My old friend said, "Sure, come on over, but it can't be my station." The Engineer in charge came out to inspect the station. He brought an expensive communications test set and checked the station into the Heathkit Cantenna the HAM had in the shack, then he said "Now, lets hook the transmitter to the antenna."

"No can do," my friend said "I haven't run any co-ax to the antenna." A brand new reel of RG-8a/u foam coaxial cable sat in the garage, and the Hy-Gain balun was sealed in the shipping box.

The very sight of the large antenna was enough for the neighbors to assume their interference was caused by my friend.

Oh, by the way...the FCC did find the source of the interference...Four of the neighbors were on the same leg of the pole transformer. The lady who first complained had a faulty oil-burner which was screwing-up her TV and three of her neighbors sets as well.

The Moral of the story:

Some folks just aren't happy unless there is something for them to worry or complain about.

I remain,

The Ol' Soldering Gunslinger

 

[eemotor]

Of the people I know who have tested motors in the past, 5 out of 6 developed prostate cancer by the age of 60.

 

[Skogsgurra]

And how many of all people you know have been working with electric motors sometime in their lives?

What I mean is this: Your handle clearly indicates that you are or was in electric motors. Most of your colleges have probably been working with electric motors. So, if you really, really count how many of them have done motor testing some time in their career, how many do you get? And if you apply the normal prostate cancer rate to that number - are you sure you don't get something like 4 -6 cases?

Even if you don't, the sample is too small to say anything about cause and effect. A common enough mistake, and one that furthers many false assumptions.

 

[IRstuff]

Additionally, motors and motor testing will most likely involve exposure to other known carcinogenic materials, e.g., PCBs possibly, ozone, petroleum distillates, etc.

TTFN

 

[Skogsgurra]

Right you are!