making a commitment while backing out the door? 4

[OliverJDragon]

Hallo Eng-Tippers!

I don't think exactly this question has been asked here before; the closest is the "do I take this job knowing I'll still keep looking elsewhere for something better?" type of question but I think this is sufficiently different.

I have a stable job, but I do not plan to stay at this job. In addition, I've done more to let my superiors know this is coming than anyone in their right mind would.

Some of what I've been saying about leaving I would expect them not to believe--I've been saying for as long as I've been here that I don't plan to stay in this geographic region. But I've been saying that for long enough that I could see how they wouldn't believe me any more.

However, in the last couple of years I've also been telling them I don't plan to stick around very long once project X is done. And project X is now almost done.

It turns out, though, that they haven't listened to a word of that either. And now they want to increase my responsibilities, which means putting me through time-consuming and expensive training. This is the kind of thing I would have liked to do if I planned to stay, but I don't.

As I said, I've done more to let on to them that I lack long-term commitment than any sane employee would do. But it's one thing to say in passing that I don't think I'll still be around by the time the project gets into the usual post-construction finger-pointing phase, or that I don't think I'll be around much longer than so-and-so (who is retiring soon); another entirely to sit in a "where is your career here headed next" meeting with the boss and boss's boss and look them in the eye and tell them I've been updating my resume and not to count on any serious commitment from me any more.

So, other than stall and dodge these new responsibilities and training through the unknown length of a job search in These Trying Times, what do I do? It would be suicide to tell them I'm seriously looking elsewhere. But it doesn't feel ethical to accept the training and the credentials that I won't use for them. (Training is soon; use of it will probably not be for a couple of years.)

Predicted Eng-Tips answer: "You never know, you might still be there in a few years, take the training, you owe them nothing."

Response round 1: (a) I'm very, very done with this job and this location. I can't stay here for a few more years. I would sooner go back to grad school than stay here a few more years. (b) I won't feel guilty about them investing *time* in me when they could be working up another candidate (not that there is someone else right now or I'd be suggesting that someone else be given the opportunity) or a different plan altogether (which they'll have to do once I leave anyway), but it feels really wrong accepting thousands of dollars in training and a valuable credential just in time to walk away with it. Except that this appears to be the kind of offer I can't refuse.

Answer round 2?

OJD

p.s. It just occurred to me that these new responsibilities could be not so much a failure to take a hint but rather a deliberate attempt to win me over, as I've been rather overtly disgruntled lately; I'm not sure whether, if that's true, it makes me feel better or worse about the situation.

 

[apsix]

You . . . . . . . . . . . , take the training, you owe them nothing.

If they didn't ask, but just told you to do the training, just do it.

If you have dependants relying on your income it is more important to keep the job for as long as it suits you, compared to refusing the training and getting fired.

And yes, you never know, you might still be there in a few years.

 

[IRstuff]

I would simply refuse the new assignment, saying that whatever is making me unhappy is not going to be solved by the new job description, and could possibly make me even more unhappy.

I've not had your specific situation, but I have turned down several "opportunities" to spend less time with my family, and I'm none the worse for wear.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[OliverJDragon]

Refusing the assignment because I just don't feel like it seems no less suicidal than telling them the truth.

Is there such a thing as an overblown sense of ethics?

OJD

 

[rowingengineer]

I don't think this is an ethical question. Ethics to me are bigger than will you or won't you tell the boss something about your personal life. Ethics are about the big picture, in your case it is a simple will I feel guilty or not.

You can refuse an assignment, politely or tell them to go shove it. You can accept the assignment and leave whenever you like. At the end of the day, people come people come people go; handing in your registration form is always hard, but really not that hard. Stop worrying about them saying that you wasted there money, because I am sure that they will waste more on bank fee’s.


Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[IRstuff]

"Refusing the assignment because I just don't feel like it seems no less suicidal than telling them the truth."

Why is that? If you were told that they wanted you to go work in the Timbuktu office, wouldn't you refuse because you "don't feel like it?" There's a separate thread about "What you see yourself doing in XX yrs?" That's part of the reason for refusing, you're more happy doing what you're doing now.

The engineering VP at a previous company, told my boss, upon my boss refusing a move to Chicaco because his wife would divorce him, stated, "Well, you can always get another wife."

New responsibilities come with new time and dedication commitments, invariably interfering with your home life and quality thereof. That's a perfectly acceptable grounds for refusing an assignment. And yes, that may cost you, but that might also give you the motivation to go and do what you supposedly want to do.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[apsix]

IR

Your approach is fine if you are prepared to lose your job prematurely, which the OP isn't at this stage.

And I'm sure that you can see the difference between undertaking some useful training at the company's time and expense, and being told to relocate interstate.

 

[rowingengineer]

I think we are two different paths here, I believe the main problem is the increase in responsibilities after the training. The training is just the qualification.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[OliverJDragon]

I don't mind the assignment. I would even like the assignment--if I were going to be around long enough to take it (after I get the requisite training). But I won't be.

@rowingengineer: Yes, this is all about feeling guilty--but isn't guilt a sign of having done something wrong?

Related to this somewhat: Common advice here is not to unload on the way out the door but rather to leave on as good terms as possible. Common advice is also "do what you gotta do, don't worry about pissing them off." Seems to me if there's some path to not pissing them off on the way out I should take it.

I'm just envisioning the scenario. I hand them my nicely worded and delighfully brief letter of resignation, and they say, "How dare you take all that training from us when you knew you were leaving?" I can say: (a) I told you I was leaving; you chose not to hear me; I chose not to press the point. (b) You wouldn't have taken no for an answer without my telling you I was leaving, and I'm sure you understand why I wouldn't tell you that. (c) something not so snarky, where I won't be poison thereafter?

OJD

 

[rowingengineer]

scenario will go somehting more like this; Damb, this is a really bad time for this to happen, any chance of you sticking around, maybe a pay rise. (you- NO).

look this notice period is really short conidering the length of our projects, any chance of you sticking around for an extra few weeks? (you- No).

We'll pay you double time for every week you stick around, (you - NO).
O'well all the best in the future, pity about all the training, guess the next offer must be good? (you - yes).

Well we'll make sure we don't leave you anytime for a proper hand over and however takes your place will be in the shit from day dot.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[OliverJDragon]

rowingengineer: Well, when you put it that way...par for the course! What am I worried about?

OJD

 

[Ron]

Be careful with the training commitment. If it's expensive, many companies will require a working time afterward to recoup their investment, otherwise if you leave before then, you have to repay them for the training. Don't get hooked into that one!

As for the other, if you are financially OK with leaving and not having another job, then do it...otherwise play out the game until you are ready to actually leave.

During all this, are you actually committed to doing a good job? Somehow it doesn't seem so.

 

[OliverJDragon]

Am I committed to doing a good job in the meantime? Good question. That which I do, I insist on doing well, but I'm doing nothing about being underutilized, and when I'm not busy I'm pretty damn surly. If I were planning to stay, I'd leap at this new assignment. But I know I won't be completing it. I'd probably be gone before I can start it, as the training will precede implementation by quite some time. The best I can do, I suppose, is while I'm officially working on an implementation plan that includes me, also try to work on an alternative plan that doesn't include me. Which solves some "leaving them in the lurch" guilt (guilt I could have easily lived with) but not the "letting them spend money on me" guilt.

Not really set up to leave before I have something else. If I were independently wealthy, I'd not be even looking.

OJD

 

[IRstuff]

My point was that the OP has been doing one thing, but wanting something else, and has been procrastinating at it for so long that no one takes him seriously. So, the question really boils down to whether being comfortable in the current situation is preventing him from doing what he supposedly wants, and whether a boot in the rear is what's needed to up his motivation.

There are those that have considered being laid off as the best thing that ever happened to them, because it forced them to do what actually made them happy.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Yagonyonok]

I'm not sure if it would be feasible or not, but you could suggest that the training be postponed to a date closer to the start of the project, arguing that the training will still be fresh when it is needed. This could buy you some time to find a way out.


Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.
-A R Dykes

 

[MechEng2005]

If I just bought a new house, based on the assumption that I would have a job, do you think the company would "suspend" laying me off? I've just spent MY money based on what I think THEY are going to do. So what's the problem with letting them spend money on what they think you are going to do?

-- MechEng2005

 

[OliverJDragon]

MechEng--that's a really good point. And my company has done exactly that to others. And they used the "you should have known it wasn't permanent" line. I think maybe I can use that analogy. Thanks!

@IRStuff--you're right, my geographical gripe has been around for long enough that I'm not surprised no one takes me seriously. But when I changed my tune from "at some point I gotta get out of here" to "at the end of this project, I'm going to go," I thought they'd hear it. I've had my kick in the rear (end of great project plus increased job dissatisfaction on other fronts) and am actively looking.

OJD

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Can we assume you can't arrange a transfer to another state/country within the company?

 

[OliverJDragon]

That would be a very good assumption. No locations outside of this state. No telecommuting. Too bad; there are aspects of the job I still really like, and there are some interesting projects coming up (that I have come to terms with walking away from).

I think MechEng has given me what I need to live with myself (and justify myself to others) when the inevitable comes to pass.

OJD

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

You can never be 100% sure of what the future holds. Something may happen to make you want to, or even force you to, remain where you are. Accept the new position (and hopefully monetary gain), do the training, and let the cards fall where they may.