Management or Leadership 2

[Blackcountryman]

Whats is the difference between Management and Leadership & do we need both?

I think they are very different management is great at handling day to day problems. Things like budgets, project schedules etc when things are running on the rails.

When things go seriously wrong, as in the south of the USA at present, management is of little use. It is the people who can provide the Leadership that make things happen.

You can teach managment but leaders are born - discuss.

 

[Slugger926]

Competition prepares leaders to meet deadlines and goals whether it is for a team or individual.

Leaders prepare. Leaders drag other to follow if they need to. Leaders push others if they need to.

Managers delegate.

An effective Leader/Manager delegates tasks to others, and leads them by making sure they make the goals.

Those that haven't competed in anything are ill prepared to lead, because they have never pushed themselves to be ready for anything.

In order to complete Engineering school, we have all cometeted whether you realize it or not. Many instructors have given impossible projects with impossible deadlines to meet. Some of us failed, some of us passed, but we all probably learned what it took to lead and manage our projects.

 

[RDK]

Management is all about making decisions. We have analytical management tools like PERT and others to help us mage decisions. Anyone can be a manager; all it takes is the right tools to do so. ( And the guts to know when to stop analyzing and make the decision.)

Leadership is simply the art of getting people to do what you want them to do. Not everyone can be a leader.

Leadership can come from several sources. There is authority leadership which is why you stop when the cop puts his flashing lights on. You do what they want because they have some power or authority to make you do so.

There is charismatic leadership. Basically the individual is so likable that you do what they want because you want to please them. Religious leaders and aspiring politicians are examples.

There is expert leadership. You do what they tell you because you believe that they are some expert in the field. Your doctor telling you to loose weight is one example.

Good leaders use different sources of power depending on the situation. For example in the workplace a manager may have authority over you, hire/fire and pay increases. He may also be more expert than you in the area of work and he may be charismatic. He will use different sources of power to get you to do what he wants depending on the situation.

Charismatic leadership is the most powerful of all the types.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Warpspeed]

A leader leads a team, always within his own discipline. He should be able to do any of the jobs carried out by lesser members of the team. He should lead by example and make others in the team feel secure in various ways.

A manager manages a broader range of THINGS and need not have the skills to actually carry out the practical work himself. He sort of directs from on high, but generally remains detached from minor team activities.

It seems that leaders get things done, whereas managers stuff things up. At least that has been my experience in my engineering career.

I suppose you could say a football captain needs to be a good team leader, needs to be able to play the actual game well. The team manager needs to know about finance and wheeling and dealing, he could even by physically disabled and still be an excellent team manager. Two different things entirely.

 

[BJC]

All good leaders are managers, not all managers are leaders.

 

[Slugger926]

Good post Rick....

 

[whyun]

Leaders are working WITH you before a major dead line.

Managers left.

 

[norzul]

In my opinion, Leadership & Management is part of the effective team. I've been reading Dr Covey's books i.e. 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, 8th Habits & First Thing First.

To him, leadership is about communicating so clearly to the people of their worth and potential that make them actually see in themselves.

I believe, in order to be effective or success in any discipline/work we need to have both, leadership and management....

 

[MedicineEng]

I was hoping that someone could explain to the us, ignorant Europeans what is "International Land Pasture and Range judging contest" and the relationship with leadership/management...

 

[GregLocock]

Obviously it's a secret technology used in the USA to improve their leadership skills. No doubt it is top secret as it is part of their national competitive advantage. The first part of the program is called "Spelling Bee" and then potentially higher grade leaders are sent out for International Land Pasture and Range judging contests.

There's a rumour that the third part is called "The Apprentice", but my spies tell me that's where the failures are sent to learn about haircare.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[lewtam]

Covey has another book, "Returning to the Well For Yet Another Drink", a good follow up to, "Get the Whip, This Horse is Dead".



LewTam Inc.
Petrophysicist, Leading Hand, Natural Horseman, Prickle Farmer, Crack Shot, Venerable Yogi.

 

[norzul]

Leadership in fact can be our choice. I think the word leader itself is relatively subjective. One can be leader of a family, leader of small group, big group, state, country, world etc. But..for sure leader must have follower(s).

Leadership
1)People
2)Enpowerment
3)Transformation
4)Doing the Right Thing
5)Direction
6)On the system
7)"Is the ladder against the right wall?"
8)Principles
9)Effective
10)Top line

Management
1)Thing
2)Control
3)Transaction
4)Doing things right
5)Speed
6)In the system
7)Climbing the ladder fast
8)Practices
9)Efficiency
10)Bottom line

 

[vpl]

my two cents worth:

1) Slugger926: I'm considered to be one of the better team leads in my organization (according to both my management and my fellow workers). However, I am horrible at atletics; something about poor eyesight and poor hand-eye coordination. I also am not much of a competitor (no spelling bees for me.) My view on athletics is that people like me were dumped on the side lines because we couldn't help win the games (you know, the person neither side wanted when choosing players in P.E. class). Maybe that's how athletics developed me into a good leader: by recognizing that there had to be a better way to do it?


2) BJC: Not all good leaders are managers. As others have pointed out, there are distinct differences between the two occupations (I really like norzul's comparison!). I'm not the least interested in being a paper-pushing manager. I like being a lead engineering inspector (my official title) because I'm involved in technical issues and I get to use my engineering skills as well as my people skills.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[BJC]

"Not all good leaders are managers"
Good leader manage people.

 

[RDK]

Not all good leaders can manage people.

Leadership is getting people to do what you want them to do.

If your source of leadership power is authority then it doesn’t matter if the people want to go where you send them, it doesn’t matter if they are effective once they get there all that matters is that they do what you want them to do.

A prison warden is a leader of the prisoners. It doesn’t matter if they want to go back to their cells, just that they go back to them. He uses authority and the use of punishment to get them to go back.

A charismatic leader is one who gets people to do things because they want to do them for him. Think of aspiring politicians or religious leaders. Again it doesn’t matter of they are doing good or being productive for the leadership to be effective. Remember the guy with the poison cool aid twenty years ago? Bad management but effective leadership. Over 900 people killed themselves because they wanted to please him.

On the other hand a prison warden who can effectively manage the prison and make the cells more hospitable (i.e. the heat is on and the plumbing works) will have an easier time getting the prisoners to do what he wants them to do than if the cells were rat holes with frozen plumbing. A politician who is also an effective manager in governing will increase the odds of being reelected.

Management is making decisions regarding the allocation and use of resources to get something done. Leadership is about getting people to do what you want them to do.

Just as managers use many different tools to analyze the resource allocation problems good leaders will use many different sources of leadership power to get the people going where they want. Leadership can be charismatic (religious leaders for example) expert (doctors) or authoritian (police).

Think of a typical office leader. He (she) will use their authority when necessary, be charismatic when necessary or use their expertise when necessary to effectively guide the people under them to do what they want them to do.

A good manager who is also a good leader will not only get people doing what he wants them to do but will have them doing it effectively and efficiently.

Leadership and management are two vastly different concepts that they cannot be compared. When they are combined well the results can be striking. When they are combined poorly the results can de disastrous.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[PsionSaint]

One of the best ways I've seen it described is that managers make sure you're doing things right; leaders make sure you're doing the right things.

 

[RDK]

Hitler was a great leader.

He managed to use his charisma to get the entire German people united behind him. He then used this charismatic leadership to transfer into an elected politician who was able to obtain authoritarian leadership powers in addition to the charismatic powers that he possessed.

It is just lucky for us that he was a bad manager and was unable to use the resources available to him in the best way or England would have fell shortly after the battle of Dunkirk and he never would have invaded Russia and divided his forces thus paving the way for his defeat.

He did not get his people to do the right thing.

Do not mistake doing the right thing with the ability to get people to do things. That is all leadership is. It is the ability to get people to do things and may be used for ill or for good.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com