mazak offerings?

[Rothrandir]

hey guys, great forum you've got here!

i'm looking into purchasing a small cnc lathe for small aluminum parts (normally only a couple inches long and around 1inch diameter), and have been looking into what machine would be best.

currently i work at a machine shop and setup and run parts on mazaks. we've got a few different generations, and i'm pretty proficient with each. but my knowlege is mainly limted to actually using the machines, and i'm not very familiar with the aspects of the various machines mazak offers.

i'm thinking something like the qtn 100 would be ideal for my needs, but dispite hours of looking, i haven't been able to find any comprehensive information as to the ins and outs of each type of machine, or even mazak in general. for example, what's the difference between a nexus and a quickturn? what models are available from what year? and most of all, what are the prices?
i've sent an inquiry to mazak via their "get a quote" option, but haven't recieved a response.

i think my best choice would be a used mazak, because of cost, but i haven't had much luck looking for a good used one either. most of the stuff i've seen has either been too old, or is too big for what i need. and of course finding the price is difficult too.

does anyone have any ideas, or know of a place i can look? i realize that this probably isn't the best place to ask this question, but i was hoping someone might be able to help.

also, what are your thoughts of using kerosene as a coolant? are there issues with flammability or damage to the machine?

 

[BillPSU]

Deciding which machine to buy is usually a tough job. Talk to the machine tool reps and get their recommendation on their machine and have an understanding why this is their best machine for the job. Start a spreadsheet and enter the different parameters which you want to compare: example rapid traverse rate, index time, hp/kw, weight of machine, swing over bed, swing over carriage, tools pockets available and whatever you decide is important to you. Try to make these choices objective now to the subjective report card. Check out service availability. Talk to other machine owners. Talk to your maintenance department have they experience with the different companies. Talk to as many people as possible in the time allowed and make a decision you will also need to know the price by the way. Unless the price is drastically different do not let price be your guide.

Using kerosene I would not do. Aluminum machines fine with water based coolants and the benefits are well documented.

 

[Rothrandir]

well, things are made somewhat easier for me, given that i'm not a job shop, and runtime isn't an especially important consideration at this point (although in the future i suppose it very well could be).
size isn't a particularly important factor either, since most of the parts i'd machine would be well within the specifications of just about any machine i could buy.
and i'd really like to go with mazak, since that's the only machine i have any experience with, and wouldn't have the faintest idea how to go about setting up something else. are there other machines that use a similar conversational code?

i just wish that there was more information available online. when you go to buy a new car there are hundreds of sources for review, opinions and help, and the same with just about any consumer product out there, but when i'm trying to find a cnc lathe, i have a hard enough time even finding out what a dam machine might cost!

another thing i'd like to know, is where would the best place to get tooling be?
there are places like enco and such, but are there any places that tailor specifically to machine shops, with good deals?

 

[SuzukiPhil]

I would avoid Mazak for home based shop. Replacement parts are expensive and service is more expensive. I had a Mori Seiki in my home machine shop, loved it. Parts are easy to come by and you can usually find someone to fix the machine on the side. Mori Seiki's are of better quality and will hold tolerances better then a Mazak.

Philip

 

[Rothrandir]

well like i said, i'm only familiar with mazak, i haven't the slightest idea how to set up or run anything else.
also, the maintance guy at my current place fixes whatever problems we encouter with them at work, and he does various jobs on the side for other people (wiring, plumbing, etc), so he's always an option as far as repairs.

are there any machines that are very similar to mazaks, as far as running and setting up goes? i'd be willing to learn a little to adapt to the other machines, but i'm really happy with the mazatrol and am quite adept at making it do whatever i need it to do. i'm concerned that with somthing else, i might have problems...

 

[wellman]

Daewoo machines are very similar in my experience. We run several at the manufacturing plant I work at. They have a conversational program called easy guide that I think is very similar to mazatrol. I use almost all stright G code so don't have a lot of experience with it. I think the proce is pretty good and I love the machines. I am not sure how small they go as all of our parts are from 6 to 14" diameter parts. The machines are very easy to setup and we have had very little in the way problems

 

[wellman]

You also might try premierequipment.com

 

[grinderguy]

When I was just starting my shop it was in a poorly heated space. We used to add kerosine into the dark cutting oil because the oil when cold was too thick to pump. Well that worked ok for a few months. Then one day when my brother turned off the motor the field colapsing set the machine on fire. Some quick thinking kept the building from burning and "raised My awareness" of the fire issues. Don't use kerosene except when the use also justifies the automatic fire supression equipment.

Robert Setree

http://www.advanced-grinding.com

 

[Rothrandir]

i got in contact with the folks at premier equipment, and it looks like they might have what i'm after.

now my main concerns are finding a building, and worrying about other expenses
if the building doesn't already have phase 3 power, is it expensive to install?

 

[wellman]

I have heard of people using a phase converter on cnc machines when 3 phase wasn't available. No idea about limits or problems this might cause.

 

[metman]

No it is not expensive to install.

I use a 3 phase converter in my shop. But I have all manual machines not CNC. On the other hand, I cannot see why it should make any difference if it is CNC. I know just enough about electicity that I was able to wire it myself but a good electrician can do it for you.

Here are some basics: Once you purchase a machine, buy a converter that is sized to start a 3 phase motor that has at least 1.25 times the hp needed to run the combined hp of all the machines you plan to use. This is because a 3 Phase motor running on single phase converted to 3 phase will only be about 80% efficient. Buy a new or used 3 Phase motor (motor A)with 1.25 times the total power requirement. Wire the converter to start this motor and wire your machine tool(s)in parallel with motor A. Once motor A is started via the converter and left idling, it will act like a generator to supply 3 Phase power for starting the machine tool(s). The CNC controls will be wired from one leg of the 3 phase circuitry or directly from your single phase source.

 

[cncmach]

Rothrandir if you are still looking for info on a cnc lathe
and using phase converters, here are some points of interest. We have been running converters in our job shop since 1976 for manual equip,1995 for cnc equip. Power requirements for cnc machines ARE DIFFERENT than manual.Voltage must be balanced on all three legs to plus/minus 10% of machine voltage requirements, the generated leg (commonly called wild leg) has a tendency to run high and must be balanced out. I checked one of ours, the wild leg was 296 (incoming voltage was 245) before going into the capacitor bank. All 5 of our cnc machines have multi-tap transformers on them and help with incoming power varibles.There might be some converters on the market that will let you run more than one machine at a time on them,I am not sure. I do know that if the cnc controller see's a drop involtage (like starting a manual lathe while the cnc is in cycle) it will fault out. For this reason our's are separate and they work quite well. Three phase was not an option for us because of our location. If you are working out of a garage three phase might be very expensive, they could charge industrial rates. Ours have proven to be cost efficent and durable. Other notes, HYUNDAI makes a MAZAK copy but not sure about quality & coolant reps will let you test product for free sometimes.
I forgot to mention converter size, it should be twice as big as the largest motor on the machine. A small lathe will have a 7.5 to 10 hp main motor. A 20 hp converter should do well.

 

[Rothrandir]

thanks guys

i think the converter will probably be the way i'll go, since the lathe would probably be the only machine i'd use on it.

 

[sbi]

get a good ole manual turet lathe!
a #3 j&L will run the small runs just as well as a cnc, it just needs a good opperator, and if it is fitted with a 2 axis
DRO you can fly
I have a pair of # 5s and can out run our cnc chuckers on almost all the short runs,

SBI
Central Ne.,USA

 

[punches]

hi rothrandir
does the mazak need a sub-spindle

 

[Rothrandir]

a subspindle shouldn't be necessary, as i have never used one and hadn't planned on getting a machine with one, but i suppose there might be some advantages? (to be honest i'm not even exactly sure what it might be used for. other side of part?

 

[icrman]

No heres the good site for cnc.

http://www.cnczone.com