McLaren MP4-12C with Kinetic/Tenneco/Ohlins CES dampers?

[autogyro46]

I've recently seen some photos of the unclothed MP4-12C chassis sporting what seems to be a version of the Tenneco/Kinetic "CES interconnected passive reactive system".
They (McLaren) are making a big deal about the absence of ARBs and continuously controlled damping. Sounds like something right out of the Tenneco borchure.
Particularly revealing is a shot of the top of the damper with the paired hydraulic and electrical connections. (attached)
Anyone have anything on this?

 

[GregLocock]

Well it does what it says on the box. I think it is spelled Kinetik but might well be wrong. At least one FSAE-A team has used it.

Not entirely sure it is legal under the current rules for F1, any electronics in the dampers seem likely to fall foul of

"10.1.2 The suspension system must be so arranged that its response results only from changes in load applied to the wheels."



Cheers

Greg Locock


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[pgpada]

MP4-12C doesn't refer to F1.

Did FSAE team use these dampers??

 

[GregLocock]

Yes

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[autogyro46]

If I have this right, the FSAE shock is a collaboration between Ohlins and Cane Creek- maker of high-end bicycle shocks.
As small shocks go, it's fairly deluxe: twin tubes, external nitrogen reservoir, separate high and low speed adjustments for both bounce and rebound (four in all), but it's completely passive. No electrons exerting their influence on wheel or suspension dynamics.

 

[gt6racer2]

See

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/56a5d8e9#/56a5d8e9/1

- this will answer the first question. Greg, UWA has used Kinetic ( yes with the "C" ) technology very sucessfully for several years, as did the Mitsubishi Dakar and Citroen WRC yeams until it was banned.

 

[GregLocock]

I was FSAE-A chassis design judge on the UWA car one year. I've also seen a demo of one of the Kinetic LandRovers, but can't remember which gen system it used, I think it was just active roll control. Like I say it does what it says on the box, once you've seen one properly sorted active suspension system then you are just down to engineering tradeoffs with any other active suspension.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[H2outlaw]

I believe that all of the Kinetic systems were not "just active roll control" but an enhanced chassis setup that improved ride/handling characteristics.

 

[GregLocock]

Believe what you like! I /know/ that their simplest system was just active roll control, with all that implies.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[GregLocock]

It wasn't truly active, no pumps were used. So semi-active roll control. it is in production on landcruiser.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[gt6racer2]

Interesting information on the MP4-12C here :

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/09/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-suspension-walkaround.html

Greg, Not even semi active - the simplest forms of the technology are completely passive.

 

[autogyro46]

Interesting that Citroen used it on the WRC. The formidable Andre LeFebvre must have smiled, looking down from that Great Drawing Board in the Sky.

 

[gt6racer2]

Smiled indeed, given that the inventor of the Kinetic technology, Chris Heyring, was inspired to create the technology by his appreciation of, and affection for, Citroen cars....

 

[MelClark]

Hi, newbie here so please be gentle............lol.
The suspension setup looks interesting, would it in roll reduce weight transfer from the inner wheel compared to a conventional anti roll bar?
Also if a computer controls the system why on a car this upmarket does it use a Z bar to control downforce?