Mechanical Engineer seeking a more hands-on experience 2

[JM1984]

First off, I just want to say Eng-tips is an excellent resource. Thanks to everyone who takes time to contribute. This is my first post, but as a new engineer I've read many, many more. I hope it won't be my last.

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I'm a mechanical engineer with one year of co-op experience in construction coordination and two years utility planning experience. I'm currently in Canada. I've been dying for an opportunity to involve myself in a part of the field where I can be more hands-on / get my hands dirty. I enjoyed the utility experience otherwise and could definitely continue in an industrial / power type setting.

I) Are there opportunities for this in the field - perhaps like a high level technician or even a hands on consultant type role (thinking of the future here)? So many opportunities seem geared towards management and coordination, which for me doesn't always feel like engineering. I have seen rotating equipment engineer postings, which looks interesting to me, but ask for many years of experience. Are these typically hands-on?

II) Would I be mistaken by considering a mechanical trade (e.g. Millwright / Industrial mechanic or large engine mechanic) instead of finding hands-on work as an engineer? I would like advice here particularly on doing a trade after an engineering degree as I have found much info for those going the other way (trade to degree).

I'm currently taking some machinist courses part-time and am loving that experience. It is part of what is inspiring me to act on feelings that have been beneath the surface for some time.

I'm not asking anyone to tell me where I where to go. I am still young in the field though. The more experienced engineers here may know of some opportunities and/or directions I've overlooked. Any perspective or advice?

Cheers,
Jim

 

[SnTMan]

JM1984, many industries have / use field engineering positions. Not unusual to be filled by recent grads etc and provide a path to increase both practical and theoretical experience and are also on the engineering career path. Pick the industry that interests you and research it.

I would probably avoid taking a trades job full time if possible. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but they probably would not be considered as on an engineering career path.

Regards,

Mike

 

[fegenbush]

Earlier in my career I spent alot of time in a machine shop making parts and welding. Both skills have definitely helped me to understand what it takes to manufacture a design and the limitations of dimensioning. I think the ideal situation would be to find a machine shop or fabrication shop that has a weekend shift and try to get on there. That way you do not limit your career by having a lot of non-engineering experience, but still get the benefit of the breadth of knowledge.

 

[dvd]

One of the millwright superintendents with whom I have worked is a degreed mechanical engineer. He has lots of autonomy and enjoys his job. I started out in the trades and went to engineering school. I still miss the hands-on aspect of skilled trades work. If you enjoy using your head and your hands, I would recommend that you consider millwright work. If nothing else, it will give you a better perspective as an engineer.

 

[1gibson]

Rotating equipment is never going away, the industry is as safe as you could ask for. If you are in the same building as a production facility you will get more manufacturing experience (dispositioning rework, solving test problems) than you might want. If it takes you more than 30 seconds to walk to the shop floor, YMMV.

Project management will get you in the door with rotating equipment, if you can handle being a whipping boy. I started as a project manager with engineering responsibility. Transitioned to a project engineer, there is much less yelling (unless one of the PM's is on speakerphone) and most days I know when I will be going home.

 

[JM1984]

Hello all,

Thanks for your replies. I have been and will continue to search for opportunities for machine/fab shop part time for now.

dvd, you never said which trade you started out with. Which was it, and what are you happy about regarding your change to engineering (ie what DON'T you miss about the trade)?

1gibson. Project management seems counter-intuitive to me as an entry point to rotating machinery - I thought most would work 'up' to project management if they desired that, no? A buddy suggested sales with equipment manufacturers as a good starting point, what do you think?

 

[1gibson]

I think if you start in sales, after 5 years you will be great at doing things with about 70-80% technical accuracy. What about the other 20-30% that makes the difference between being "competent" and being an expert? No problem! Throw some extra cash in the quote and let the factory figure it out, then go "visit a potential customer" (take the rest of the day off.)

But I am just cynical like that. Or realistic, I get those words confused sometimes.

How do you think new engineers get started at production facilities?
Design engineer with no product knowledge?
Manufacturing engineer with no manufacturing experience?
Test engineer with no idea what to do when a product fails test?

They start in project management, usually under direct supervision of an experienced PM, but it can quickly turn into a "sink or swim" situation. Here is a sample of what you might expect:

1)Make sure this pump/compressor/widget has the bill of material released quickly and accurately (begin to understand product details and design challenges.)
2)Review and confirm any subvendor items work with your product(gain experience and limited product knowledge of ancillary industries, possible alternate career paths.)
3)Make sure the parts will be there in time (understand the different phases of manufacturing processes, get a feel for timing of each, build up a bag of tricks to get your parts faster in an emergency)
4)Disposition any non-conformances when parts arrive (understand machining tolerances, component fits, explore practical methods of rework.)
5)Interact with people on the factory floor (if a guy has been building the same machines for 30 years, he might not be able to spell but there is a whole lot you can learn about realistic design, and manufacturability of certain products.)
6)Keep the customer informed about schedule, and manage any design changes (this is not fun, you tend to get yelled at, but it is good practice for building up patience and people skills.)
7)Help work through any warranty claims (this "closes the loop" on your experience from design to operation of the equipment, and makes the difference between 5 years experience (project management) or 1 year of experience 5 times (sales.))
8) Problem solving with time constraints, problem solving with cost constraints, problem solving by negotiating a specification requirement with another engineer, problem solving when sales has promised the customer you will meet impossible requirements in an impractical amount of time, problem solving while getting yelled at. Doing all that at the same time, on multiple projects.

Do you want to be someone who creates/ignores/passes on problems and thinks it is ok because they included a few thousand dollars for the trouble, or do you want to be someone who can actually solve those problems, and learn something while doing it?

Which one sounds more valuable in terms of quickly gaining experience?
Who would you rather be stuck on a desert island with?
Who would you rather hire?

Hope this doesn't offend anybody, there are exceptions to every rule but all know "that guy" that I described as the evil salesman. Maybe even more than one of them! If you like a challenge and value experience above all else, PM is the way to go. If you want low stress and long lunches, do sales.

 

[dvd]

JM1984, I started out as a sheet metal worker. I served a four-year apprenticeship and then worked at the trade for a time before, during and after college. I don't miss being scared whilst working up really high; working in really cold/hot weather and surroundings; working hungover (seems to go with the trades and youth); I don't miss some of the ignorance of certain people; I don't miss the long commutes to jobsites outside of the metro area. I think that I went into engineering because I felt some twinge of guilt about not fully applying myself. I don't really think that engineering has really allowed me to fully apply myself, though, because now I don't feel fulfilled in the physically creative aspects of my life. My advice: be happy wherever you are, and don't get so involved in your work that you don't enjoy your life; and buy some land to play on.

 

[JM1984]

Thanks for the excellent replies.

1gibson, I'm happy for an opinion on the matter. Truth be told, since graduation I've avoided engineering sales. I didn't think I'd have much of a heart for it due to my own opinions (which weren't too far removed from yours). Experience has perhaps now given me a more weighted view, after coming across quite a few of these types of engineers in my last position. Some of them managed to break the mold of the sales engineer I'd had in mind. That said, I still doubt its an area for me.

My primary experience with Project Managers was in construction. The impression they left on me was of enforcers of the overall constraints and managers of expectations. It seemed a bit far removed from the actual work going on (a bit more higher level perhaps?). I definitely do remember the shouting though! I remember seeing some of what you mention, while your other examples I remember being the domain of other site staff.

For a few reasons though, I like the idea of getting a foundation as you've describe it above. I appreciate the ability to get product knowledge, gain an understanding of many different design challenges, actively aid in solving problems, learn of other engineering career possibilities and enhance people skills quickly. I definitely DO NOT want one year of experience five times. I will begin to pay more attention to the engineering project management job postings as they arise.

dvd, duly noted. Your advice reminds me of a decision I once faced in University. My interest and grades in my program were slipping and had an opportunity to change direction after being accepted into another. It was a no-brainer on paper. I was disgruntled, this new program had always been my second option and acceptance into it was notoriously difficult. I rejected it after MUCH consideration. I had realized a few things: I was at a low point and this was an escape route, the things affecting my performance were not primarily program related and running may have caused more problems than it would have solved. I stayed and fixed them and it was the best academic decision I ever made. I'll cultivate my passion outside work for now and give any future career jumps all the consideration they deserve. Thanks.