Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06 131

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05

SF Charlie
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[LionelHutz]

I feel like this distinction is important when thinking about what part of the plaza slab may have failed first. But is this logic sound or is there a flaw I am missing here?

The story is that they were not going to the lobby, but that the elevator was on the way to a higher floor and then it was automatically recalled to the lobby and they got off once it arrived there. So, they were on the elevator when the deck starting collapsing.

The surface parking area fell into the garage below. Would they have been in the parking garage after part of the garage roof had fallen in without noticing???

 

[Seppe]

Not only blasted through the pool deck, they turned back under the building and knocked out the building columns

How could I forget - the sentient parapet hell-bent on destruction.

I'm afraid it's a debate that won't be solved on these boards.

In looking at the CCTV surveillance video, one faction of posters sees an already-collapsed upper two levels of the building, while the other sees the central building stack intact, with the collapse already in progress to the tune of about two stories worth of fall. I feel like the latter interpretation is more likely, based on what is actually visible (the video quality is awful) in conjunction with some fairly obvious pool deck-level Achilles heel(s).

Spartan5 put it very succinctly in referencing Occam's razor. I land squarely in this camp.

No doubt when whatever NIST report is filed and made public, there will still be those select few who won't believe it given how invested they are in their theory. Flair for the dramatic, I guess.

 

[LionelHutz]

I saw a frame in the video with the 2 rather distinct looking upper level parapets about a story or 2 down already but definitely there. Small pieces could be missing, but not the whole parapet section. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise because I didn't try very hard, at all, to analyze the video and still saw that within a few seconds of looking at it.

At this point, these threads are just going around in circles with new members injecting their "new" theory even though it was previously posted and often with some previously known or posted facts being ignored.

 

[gonefishing2]

Ok, PH has larger outside deck, but still roof projections all line up.

 

[KingBobo]

New live stream started at [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl7xiMcYpQQ[/url]

Highlight so far is a guy attempting to corral water with his mini track loader.

 

[Spartan5]

Would someone like to start a new thread? I’m mobile at the moment but I have something fresh/interesting to share to kick it off. It will be a good start to the weekend for everyone.

 

[JStephen]

I haven't tried to follow all the details of the top-down vs bottom collapse. But I can't help but wonder if somebody isn't thinking "Hey, if we can make it (partially) the fault of the contractor working on the roof, we can go after their insurance, too!"

 

[Seppe]

Would someone like to start a new thread? I’m mobile at the moment but I have something fresh/interesting to share to kick it off. It will be a good start to the weekend for everyone.

Done.

All- please shift your responses to the new (#7) thread.

 

[MaudSTL]

Edit: moved to 07.

*********************

So the logic I am inferring from this sequence is that the collapse in the garage documented by the tik tok video could not have PRECEEDED the collapse of the surface parking area near the lobby, or they certainly would have noticed it before getting on the elevator.

So where does the few minutes between patio collapse and building collapse fit in with what this crew saw? Presumably the garage collapse as seen in the tic tok vid had not happened yet while they were in the garage.

The timeline and 911 call timestamps are helpful in understanding what we currently know about this. Nicolas Vazquez's statements are difficult to evaluate by someone who does not speak Spanish and are subject to future clarification. ​

This is my understanding. Everything was happening very fast at that moment. Adriana Sarmiento's TikTok video starts after the Vazquezes got out of the garage. So her video is showing us what the garage entrance looked like right after the deck collapsed. By that time, the Vazquezes were up in the lobby with the Nirs.
[ul]
[li]<1:15 am: Vazquez/Accardi drive back from dinner, park in the garage, walk to the elevator, hear a weird cracking sound, get on the elevator[/li]
[li]~1:15 am: Deck collapse, witnessed from the lobby by Sara Nir from 111 and Shamka Furman, security guard[/li]
[li]1:16:27 am 911: "A big explosion" "earthquake." This call may be from Shamoka Furman[/li]
[li]<1:16:39: fire alarm directs elevator to lobby[/li]
[li]1:16:39 am 911: Central Alarm Control calls in fire alarm.[/li]
[li]>1:16:39: Vazquez/Accardi exit elevator into smokey/dusty lobby, hear car alarms, see "sunken cars", and run out of the building with the Nirs just before the building collapses. In one interview, Vazquez said their entire experience occurred in less than five minutes. Sara Nir said that the building collapse just as they crossed Collins.[/li]
[li]1:17:49 am 911: "earthquake" "the garage" "something underground... everything exploded down." *May also be Shamoka Furman[/li]
[li]1:18 am: Adriana Sarmiento begins to video the rubble seen in the garage entrance.[/li]
[li]1:22 am: Building collapses.[/li]
[/ul]

What I am still baffled by is what Sara Nir heard at 1:10 am. She said it sounds like a wall collapsing. All three Nirs said in multiple interviews there were three collapses preceded by the knocking sounds (which Chani Nir says were already happening at 11:00 pm):
[ul]
[li]1:10 am: Sara Nir hears what sounds like a wall collapsing[/li]
[li]1:15 am: Sara Nir and Shamoka Furman witness the deck collapse[/li]
[li]1:22 am: All witness the building collapse[/li]
[/ul]

 

[KingBobo]

Heads up, migration to the new thread is just a click away...

Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07

 

[JStructsteel]

After seeing pictures of the condos and how lavishly they are decorated and trimmed out, there certainly was no evidence of that digging thru the rubble.

I didnt go back thru all 6 threads, but has there been any talk how easily the concrete crumbled, even with just hand tools? A product of it collapsing? Carbonation? Sea mist?