Continue...
Previous thread (Part 06)
[link ]
[/url]
Previous thread (Part 06)
[link ]
[/url]
Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet
Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07 90
- Thread starter Seppe
- Start date
Demented said:
Thank you! There's no point, then, in trying to track down Mr. Santini for his photos...he lost four friends in the collapse, and must be devastated. This collapse really hit close to home with you too. My condolences to all who lost acquaintances, friends, and loved ones.
I lost no one so my bother is in other ways. Not saying to track him down, but he may have knowledge of newer stuff. That railing bid started in 2019, so a lot could have changed since.
Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge
Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge
What seemed sanitized about it?MaudeSTL said:
The Post article cites a time of 1:14 per their interview with her.
And even in the CNN interview she refers to the wall collapse as “construction” noises and goes to complain about it not because she’s worried about the building, but because she’s annoyed that it’s happening at 1 am.
Brought to you via potato cam.
Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge
Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge
That may be so. But there’s also been no reporting on their existence, regardless of the status of their release; e.g. “Sources report that concerned residents on the 11th floor called 911 more than ten minutes before the building collapsed…”BKNJ said:
This article in the Miami Herald about the release of the 911 calls, makes no qualification that the calls are from “survivors” BTW.
Paul Austin
Computer
Interesting. They put a cone where each column should be located and it seems that at least one column is missing
Spartan5 said:
I said 'when the 911 calls were first released'. I acknowledge that 99% of the articles out there do not specify 'survivors'... just like 99.9% of the articles out there specify erroneously that only 55 units were destroyed.
Anyway, WPLG Local 10 specified 'survivors'... it was one of the first sources of such info I came across at the time... I don't know if they misspoke or what, but since it's an odd inclusion I thought it would be of interest. There was at least a second source that specified survivors, but I can't find it now.
There have been some aspects of this news story which have been very hush-hush, so it wouldn't surprise me if other calls or their existence would be glossed over at this time.
BKNJ
-
1
- #29
Murphy 9000 said:
The original plans indicate that activation of a pull station, smoke detector, or flow switch will transmit an audible alarm to the activated floor only. It goes on to state that after 0-10 minutes, the system will then go into a general alarm, and tamper switches will annunciate but will not activate the fire alarm. Further it states that the elevators will return to the first floor "upon alarm".
The preamble cites Sec. 5100 of the South Florida Bldg. Code.
I obtained a copy of the code book dated 1994 and section 5103.1 states:
(e) All alarm signaling devices on each floor shall activate the alarm device on the signaling floor only and annunciate at the Central Control Station with the further provision that any or all such alarm devices shall be operable from the Central Control Station.
The 1979 plans show that both the fire alarm panel and alarm voice console appear on the first floor near the security office and electrical room.
This is not to say that the original 1980 system was still in place, but audible alarms only on the activated floor first does seem to be the standard.
I did not study the fire alarm riser diagrams thoroughly, but it appears that annunciators and speaker wiring could be compromised if significant structural damage occured near the first floor or garage.
Attached is a copy of the fire system plan from 1979.
-
1
- #31
inspired by your cone-counting I tried lining them up. I also get a missing cone close to your red arrow (red circles), also one further to the left left (east) and further back, depending on how you line things up. I'm sure the CAD gurus will do a more formal job of this, but it is certainly difficult to find all the columns that should be there.
Nukeman948
Electrical
Ummm... the more likely explanation is that the site safety
officer put a cone where there was a tripping hazard hidden below the water's surface.
There is no need to keep the column locations marked while the site is being demoed.
The remains of columns and all the other rubble have been moved offsite for further study.
The land will be cleared and made ready for a memorial or sold to a new developer.
3DSoftwareDev
Computer
The cones aren't always over columns. On-site folks are moving them around sometimes.
Yesterday, this cone was over a column but these people came by, chatted for a few minutes, then picked this cone up and moved it a few feet away for some reason. It remained there for the rest of the day.
Yesterday, this cone was over a column but these people came by, chatted for a few minutes, then picked this cone up and moved it a few feet away for some reason. It remained there for the rest of the day.
microwizard
Computer
The mini dozer was fighting a losing battle, the water level continued to rise, apparently coinciding with high tide. It is going to be interesting to see what the foundations look like under that slab.
-
1
- #35
microwizard said:
Or perhaps the water table is so high here. Reports say that standing water in the garage had to be pumped out regularly and often was a losing battle. Building Integrity YT channel actually talked about this in his recent video. He posits that the fluctuating water table level contributed to subsidence and that the water could have been leaching into the columns from below. He shows some photos from the garage walk thru that show possible water saturation at the base of the columns.
Steel cribbing to be a make-shift damn that slows the water ingress is the standard here. Leave in ground or remove, typically remove if it's not at a remaining sea wall.spalso said:
Was there a sea wall in the plans? Was the East facing wall in the parking garage what was intended to be the barricade between the ocean tides and the interior of the building? Water does flow 2-3ft below sea level here.
Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge
spsalso - another method they use to control water in big excavations like this during construction is called well pointing. Basically a series of pretty shallow wells that surround the perimeter of the excavation. The wells draw the groundwater, water table down in an attempt to keep the water from reaching the excavation.
As for these pictures, it doesn't look like they're trying too hard to keep it dry cause I only see a couple pumps. At some point they make a more serious effort at pumping if they want to get a better look at the slab and foundations.
As for these pictures, it doesn't look like they're trying too hard to keep it dry cause I only see a couple pumps. At some point they make a more serious effort at pumping if they want to get a better look at the slab and foundations.
I have noticed that WPLG has better reporting. They have one of their reports on site every day, and dig for stories when the narrative is not being managed by the mayors and the governor...BKNJ (Computer)17 Jul 21 04:25 said:
SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
- Status
Similar threads
- Question
- Locked
- Question