Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 18 30

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17


SF Charlie
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[dik]

Thanks SFCharlie...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SFCharlie]

You're welcome.

SF Charlie
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[zebraso]

apologies for jumping to conclusions

Not needed. I should have called it an artistic rendering instead of a drawing. It's an insult to drawings. Like an overly fancy ppt. No Charlie, I'm not talking about you!

 

[sgw1009]

The new Ring Camera video/audio is clearly from an xx5 view of the hallway, and it is the hallway that collapsed. So this clearly shows that the audio of the collapse is laid over a freeze frame of the Ring Camera video (post-production manipulation). Otherwise the video would have shown the collapse happening. Supposedly the actual (full) Ring Camera video does show the full video that accompanies the audio track. Yet another card being withheld.

 

[Sym P. le]

Thanks for stating the obvious [not sarcastic]. I knew there was something wrong with that presentation but I couldn't put my finger on it. We live in a depraved world when sensationalism displaces news.

 

[zebraso]

It explains the missing motion that triggered the camera. Otherwise it had me wondering whether this was a continuously recording ring. AFAIK Ring mentioned that was a feature that would be available some time ago (for a fee). I was not aware they never came out with it.

 

[Nukeman948]

The new Ring Camera video/audio is clearly from an xx5 view of the hallway, and it is the hallway that collapsed.

Looks like you agree with me.

It was located at the doorway to an x05 unit looking straight down the hallway of the part that collapsed.

The frozen frame is a possibility, however we know that the building was making plenty of noises prior to the actual collapse. I believe the audio is of the sounds that the building was making before the actual collapse and not the collapse itself. It seems to me that the actual collapse would be much louder and have a brief pause before the eastern part fell.

Here are some points to keep in mind.
1) The ring video from 711 is much longer and shows the building crumbling and twisting in the moments before the collapse, but is without audio. This audio would fit over that video nicely.
2) Ileana Monteagudo in 611 saw a crack developing through her living room wall and still had time to escape. While she didn't report any sounds associated with the cracking, I'm sure it was making sounds like in this recording too.
3) Ring cameras require motion a certain distance from the camera to activate them and will continue to record for some time after all motion stops. Is it possible for the video to freeze while the audio continues to record? Isn't it also possible that the motion that triggered it stopped and it still recorded for a few more seconds?

I already admitted that the video was edited but this audio is still valid information of the sounds before the actual collapse.

"It is a shame that they superimposed the building collapse video over this video for dramatic effect, but there is no evidence that the audio has been altered."

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[sgw1009]

Listening to the audio track that accompanied the "new" Ring camera video freeze frame, it sounds to me as though the collapse is in its early stages, and begins to accelerate as the clip progresses, like a snowball rolling down a hill and getting larger and larger, but then the audio fades out, just as the sounds of the collapse avalanche is building. This clip is in mp3 format - not sure the link will work as it is not a image, just a file.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/video/upload/v1657045056/tips/CTS_Collapse_Audio_sgz1zq.mp3[/url]

 

[MaudSTL]

Ileana Monteagudo in 611 saw a crack developing through her living room wall and still had time to escape. While she didn't report any sounds associated with the cracking, I'm sure it was making sounds like in this recording too.

I’m not sure that’s true. Ms. Monteagudo recently stated that the hallway was silent when she left her apartment. She previously stated that she could hear the car alarms when she stood at her sliding door, and that the she heard and saw the wall crack in the living room.

Remember too that the late Cassie Stratton was awakened in 410 by the building shaking, and after she got on the phone with her husband she told him it had started shaking again just as it collapsed.

I have always theorized, based on the witness statements, that three stages occurred after the deck collapsed, e.g.
[ol 1]
[li]The building first rumbled and swayed as it transferred loads, as per Gabe Nir in 111, which woke up Cassie Stratton and Ileana Monteagudo.[/li]
[li]Then it somewhat caught its equilibrium for several minutes, as the Nirs and Vazquezes evacuated from the lobby, Ms. Stratton called her husband, and Ms. Monteagudo saw the crack form and got out of 611.[/li]
[li]Finally, as it lost its equilibrium, it rumbled and swayed just before it collapsed as per Cassie Stratton and the original Ring video in 711.[/li]
[/ol]

 

[Nukeman948]

I’m not sure that’s true.

Thank you, I corrected my post. My point was that there were settling sounds and motion for a period of time before the collapse long enough for her to escape. I was responding to sgw1009's comment: "Otherwise the video would have shown the collapse happening."
The silent hallway as she left implies that it was not one continuous collapse but was settling in stages as it failed, also confirmed by Cassie Stratton's phone call. That means that the new video could have been either the first or second settling event.

The news media in general has damaged their own reputation enough without people making up stories about them manipulating or withholding information without evidence. If they had video of the collapse happening they would have shown it. That would have generated much more revenue for them than just giving the audio portion for "sensationalism".

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[sgw1009]

In response to Nukeman948, I am not saying that it was necessarily the media that contrived the manipulation for nefarious purposes. Perhaps they were supplied only the freeze frame with the audio overlaid, or perhaps they were supplied with two separate files. Having retired from 50 years in the media business, I know what can be done, and what is frequently done, to "get it on the air." What you see if often not unaltered. Call it poetic license. Your point about if they had video of the collapse happening they would have shown it is a valid point. And in today's day and age, they will air just about anything. "We want to warn you that the video we are about to show is graphic." And then they air it. The fact that they only aired what they did tells me that that is all that they had, and again, they may have had to "make it work" by putting the audio over the freeze frame. It is also possible that the video is not a freeze frame, but just a video shot that does not change (in any noticeable way). Regardless, this Ring camera was in a position to see the entire hallway in front of it collapse, and short of a power interruption or some other terminating phenomenon, it is reasonable to expect that this Ring camera did in fact capture the entire collapse (as best it could). It is highly likely that NIST has the entire clip, but only released the first portion of it.

 

[Nukeman948]

Unlimited conspiracies with a dearth of evidence.

[sub]
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[SFCharlie]

The Miami Herald is partnering with 101 Studios and Grain Media on a documentary that will investigate the deadly 2021 collapse of Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida. — Surviving Surfside will interrogate the failure of the 12-story building in the early morning of June 24, 2021 that left 98 people dead and is still under official investigation, the companies announced on Tuesday.

The Herald's in-depth breaking news coverage of the disastrous Champlain Towers South collapse one year ago recently won the paper a Pulitzer Prize and will be a primary source of information for the upcoming Surviving Surfside documentary.

Surviving Surfside: Documentary about Miami condo collapse announced


SF Charlie
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[MaudSTL]

Well shoot. This is going to be the conversion of the multipart podcast, along with what I think of as their erroneous timeline, into a documentary. They are sure milking it! After the documentary I am guessing we will get the first feature film, with Jessica Chastain as the late Cassie Stratton, Meryl Streep as Ileana Monteagudo, Rami Malik as Gabe Nir, and Zoe Kravitz as Shamoka Furman. The Vazquezes will play themselves.

 

[Keith_1]

The failure of this structure is nothing more than having unqualified persons in charge of a midrise construction, nothing more and nothing less. You do not have to be a PE, GC or a AIA member to see that this structure was in trouble for years. I don't think the owners should have gotten a dime, the Consulting Engineers and the Building Dept are to blame

Supervised alarm systems are not designed for a building collapse, it just is not part of NFPC, NEC, or any other code that I have ever remotely attempt to address. In relation to the security guard that was hired, it was the licensed property manager's responsibility to ensure that any $11/hr worker on the nightshift when they were off site to make sure that they were familiar with the relevant building systems.

The idea that a property management company, or a board of directors are even remotely qualified to judge structural issue on mid-rise is ludicrous. There needs to be new category of license for AIA, PE, and GC's, and perhaps a specialty inspectors license in terms of actual field experience with multiple construction systems to qualify for a licensure test. It was a tragedy, and I blame the people that should have known better to act.

Please before you commit, we all know that are alot of rent-a-stamp firms out there, both Architectural and the Engineering disciplines, as well as contractors that need proper supervision. Condo Board are generally filled with people that would rate themselves as professional level knowledge on every issue presented to them, they did their research. The Property managers sole qualification is a weekend course on sections 718 or 720 of the Florida Statutes, which does not mention anything AIA Forms, or Building Codes, or even partial lien releases, and combined these individuals are charged with managing complicated projects from $1 Million to $30 Million or more.

Unless you have a million sqaure feet of actual documented supervisory field experience in the construction of these structures and have managed these projects at least at the project manager level you have no business being anywhere these buildings.

 

[stcbus]

Fire alarm systems are used for other emergencies now and the damn thing didn’t even sound and had some other fault. So yes, they are definitely liable for a part of this tragedy.

The building could have collapsed without killing as many people if all of the engineers, safety systems, etc were doing their job. Your post is a bunch of nonsense and sounds very “blame the victim”.

 

[Sym P. le]

I agree with Keith. The uninitiated have no business making essentially life and death decisions in complex structures of which this is one, even investment grade decisions of same. I believe any developer would have seen this structure for only its redevelopment value (which was a lot) but would otherwise promptly shut it down.

 

[MaudSTL]

The sale of the property at 8777 Collins has closed. Here’s an archived version of Damac closes on acquisition of Surfside collapse site for $120M.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

WOW!

https://youtu.be/FMAsOO58Gko

Champlain Towers South building collapse alarm and security issues

Folks, you need to watch this video that just came out a few days ago! See 3 screenshots I made below from this webinar

This is a Webinar with a lawyer interviewing Matt Haiman from Premiere Alarm Systems Elrado Ellis, who Installed the fire alarm system at Champlain Towers, and why the alarm never sounded. Has lots of clear photos, and they go through the log clearing things up.

Most damaging info was that he repeatedly emailed Scott, the property manager of CTS to pull the CPU before they imploded the surviving part of the condo, as it was intact and in the security desk area in the lobby. Scott replied back 3 days later that they never pulled the CPU.

Maud you may want to update the timeline spreadsheet to show that the fire log here actually shows the 911 call from central alarm services being placed to 305-595-1201 (Miami Dade Police 911) at 1:16:27 which is the same time as the lobby phone call that you have indicated on the spreadsheet.

He mentions Champlain Towers turned down the automated capability of the fire alarm sounding the speakers in the bedrooms for evacuation because it was too expensive. CTS had their system set up for human intervention to hit the all-call button, but we know the security guard Shimoka was not trained on i. He said Miami Herald blamed alarm company but he showed the alarm was functioning and did everything it was supposed to. His testimony was so good in the deposition, that it was used against Securitas to get the $500 million settlement which is why Securitas paid out the max on the insurance policies.

He gives a lot of great info here, and his feelings after being deposed for the settlement, and some speculation. But I am working on a video today to discuss this, and some of Matt's implications. Show photos all over inside, some of which we had never seen before.

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