Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 18 30

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17


SF Charlie
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[Nukeman948]

If the all-call did not have a recorded announcement, then I am not sure what one of the survivors from the west part of the building heard after the collapse.

That announcement could have been made by a firefighter at the annunciator panel.

Normally, tones and a pre-recorded message will repeat until it is acknowledged/silenced from the panel while the strobes continue to flash until the system is reset. The system can not be reset if any device is still in an activated state. If the panel receives an activation from another initiating device, the message starts again for all zones with an activated device. So someone on the 8th floor could have used a pull station or a smoke detector may have triggered from dust to start the message they heard.

With most systems, to use the "all call" function you need to push a button to turn on the audio amplifier in the panel and then there is a series of buttons, one for all floors/zones at once (all call) and individual buttons to activate each floor/zone individually as needed. Then you may need to push the button on the microphone to talk.

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[MaudSTL]

Without the detailed system log from the fire alarm CPU, we will never know what actually happened. The Central Alarm log, which is shown without the entries prior to the 1:15:29 Trouble code, sheds no light on why some survivors heard alarms and announcements after the building collapsed at 1:22.

Here’s the Central Alarm log image from the alarm contractor’s presentation. I would like to see the entries prior to 1:15:29.

 

[stcbus]

I want to know if someone was ever held accountable to grab the CPU. That is ridiculous it was ignored for a day or two when it should have been easy to grab. Hopefully NIST or someone did actually grab it, but it seems likely security stuff wasn't grabbed either. Those are the kind of things that make people shout coverup and corruption. Just blatant incompetence.

 

[MaudSTL]

The slicing and dicing of the $1.1B wrongful death settlement has occurred. While it also benefits survivors of the part of the building that did not collapse (pain and suffering) as well as the three who were pulled alive out of the rubble, I don’t see a mention of anything going to the survivors of the part of the building that did collapse, i.e. the Nirs and Ms. Monteagudo, or to Security Guard Shamoka Furman.

Surfside families portray victims to judge dividing $1.1 billion. ‘The entire room was crying.’

 

[SFCharlie]

Sept. 29, 2022, Update: Champlain Towers South Investigation Completes Site Testing, Announces Next Advisory Committee Meeting

An update on this effort and other work related to the investigation will be presented to the NCST Advisory Committee at a public meeting on Oct. 19, 2022.

 

[MaudSTL]

If you want to sit in on the NCST read-out of Oct. 19, you must register by Oct. 3. Here’s the announcement that includes the registration info.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...uction-safety-team-advisory-committee-meeting

 

[Sym P. le]

Professor Dawn Lehman responds to Kai's (Construction Engineering & Failure Analysis) Youtube video critiquing Miami Herald's "House of Cards" article. Kai has pinned the comment so I won't reproduce it.

This was about doing my best with the information I had to provide some understanding of what MIGHT have initiated the collapse sequence. I was not predicting the overall collapse mechanism ...

... the analysis is my work, but this article was not written by me and the MH consulted many other engineers ...

Further analysis by Kai in a followup video with more comments by Prof. Lehman.

 

[dik]

The Keystone Engineers? Lehman's dialogue could have been a little more organised and polished, but overall info, if correct, speaks volumes.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[stcbus]

I will say I don’t put much authority into the YouTuber’s comments either. He didn’t understand the need for supercomputers for large analysis and time (his reaction to supercomputer was like that of any John Doe who doesn’t really know about computers) and seemed unable to interpret correctly the statement about “peer reviewed methods” which obviously was talking about IMPLEMENTING methods that were peer reviewed as working. Lots of lack of basic understanding from someone I would want to listen to regarding this.

 

[dik]

Sorry guy, you do not need supercomputers to design multi-storey buildings... I've done 30 storey ones with a TI-59. Mind you, my current hand calculator has a Motorola 68000 precessor which used to be a real chip.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[stcbus]

This isn’t constructing. This is forensic analysis. And simulations that only computers can do.

 

[dik]

Again, simulations can be useful for forensics... but the real calculations are the things that make the simulations work. Unless you are looking at instability issues, the 'numbers' will likely show that something is 'bound to break'. Simulatons generally just yield a possible manner in which something fell down and confirm the 'real calculations'.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[MaudSTL]

Kai is a hands-on materials behavior expert. He knows from practical experience how materials behave. Degreed engineers are not always right, and neither is Kai. But his expertise is worthy of respect and should not be dismissed because he has no degree.

Unfortunately, communication is not Kai’s best skill, and when he is or feels dissed, he attacks hard. A counter-attack just makes him dig in his heels.

Dr. Lehman just gave a tutorial in how to parry a social media attack. Her response has completely disarmed Kai, led to a productive, informative interaction, and resulted in corrections to historic videos where she was misrepresented.

Win-win. A great lesson to us all.

 

[MaudSTL]

The agenda for the Oct. 19 NCST CTS read-out is very brief. Team Lead Judith Mitrani-Reiser and Associate Team Lead Glenn Bell will speak, and then there will be a 20 minute discussion. So far there haven’t been any links to presentations.

I’ll take notes and report out.

 

[dik]

thanks...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[MaudSTL]

Here’s a high level view of what NIST has accomplished so far. They are doing a lot of interviews, and have also received expert input from two of the major civil litigants. As I was never able to interview anyone, I am really looking forward to the refinement of the timeline I made from published reports.

NIST is having to slip its schedule six months because they have been having a hard time in Miami-Dave’s hot real estate market obtaining adequate warehouse space to work safely, and also because they are challenged to complete their contracting processes any faster than normal. So we are looking at completing technical work in April 2024, and final report by April 2025.

 

[MaudSTL]

NIST is still considering 24 failure hypotheses. This slide shows half of them.

NIST is using these and other inputs to build out the model as a container of all data.

The warehouse space problem is hampering invasive testing. They have no room for their core samples.

During the Q&A following the presentations, Don Dusenberry of ASCE criticized the level of detail of the modeling. Glenn Bell explained, in essence…these are my words, that the building was a system and it was premature to ignore portions of the system without adequate data. He added that when they feel they have adequately defined the collapse sequence they will be able to target the level of detail in the model appropriately.

>>>>>Edit: Don Dusenberry is the lead reviewer of NIST’s annual report to Congress.

NIST has identified the actual source of aggregate for their test mixes.

>>>>>To be continued…

 

[MaudSTL]

The truck that they use for MASW is called the Thumper.

Carley and Associates is working on structural analysis.

This is a snapshot of the path forward.

After the Glenn Bell presentation, two members of the public spoke. The first person objected to the fact that the developer of this site didn’t have conclusive information on site conditions because NIST is taking so long.

The second person, whose daughter died in the collapse, objected to how long this is taking.

A third person was unable to figure out how to join the video meeting, and will be asked to submit written comments.

Just as they left for lunch, NIST stated that it is not a law enforcement agency.

 

[Sym P. le]

Let's just be straight up here. This is a gratuitous investigation. A full on failed elevated slab was continued to be used as a parking deck with catastrophic results.

 

[MaudSTL]

They have certainly opened up plenty of room for Allyn Kilsheimer to produce a report faster than NIST can.