Migrating to Canada or USA from Greece (Geological/Mining/Metallurgical Engineer) 1

[geov86]

Hello guys! I am really really glad to find this forum as I can see it represents a strong engineering community on the internet. I don't want to get you tired with many things so I am about to tell you my story in the short run, and I would kindly like your opinions regarding my issue.

I am a BSc(hons) Engineering Geologist specialized in Geotechnical Engineering and I have 4yrs of work experience as a consultant mainly in foundation engineering as well as in natural hazards (landslides, slope stability etc),and very few experience in tunneling. In addition,in a couple of years from now I am about to graduate from the National Technical University of Athens as a M.Eng Mining & Metallurgical Engineer (5yrs academic degree = BSc & integrated MSc) with specialization in Geoengineering & Metallurgy.

As most of you are aware (I think?), the situation in Greece has become unbearable,with zero prospects for engineers (basically for everyone!). For this reason, I decided to leave Greece,search for a job,and settle,abroad. Since two of my top choices are Canada and USA, I would like to ask you a couple of questions regarding engineering and engineering market there.
1) What's the possibility of getting geology or an engineering job before immigrating there, and without having to attend a MSc at a Canadian or US university in order to be seen more favorable from a possible employer?
2) How is the market in Canada or USA regarding geotechnical engineering,mining engineering, or geology? Good - bad prospects?
3) If I take the PE examinations and obtain the PE, does this change the way employers consider my resume and application, instead of just apply for a job without having this?

Thank you very much in advance for your opinions and for the kindness to reply to my post. Wish you all a wonderful day!

George

 

[GregLocock]

Sounds like fact free bloviating to me. Here's some, you know, like, numbers, not hot air.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/04/which-countries-have-the-most-cost-effective-healthcare/

Norway, Switzerland and the United States are the world’s three biggest healthcare spenders – paying $9,715 per person (9.6% of GDP), $9,276 per person (11.5% of GDP), and $9,146 per person (17.1% of GDP) respectively.

But other countries’ health systems are managing to achieve similar or better results for far less. Hong Kong spends $1,716 per person (6% of GDP), Israel $2,599 per person (7.2% of GDP) and Singapore $2,507 (4.6% of GDP). These countries, like Norway and Switzerland, have life expectancies of between 82 and 83 years. By comparison, life expectancy in the US is 79.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[geov86]

@CWB1 : I can't say anything about the comparison of the two systems with precision if I don't know every single detail about both of them. For example, why do you believe that private healthcare system is cheaper than the socialized? You said you pay 400$ per month about your plan and that it includes health,vision and dental.Is it for unlimited use?Does a person pay more in future contracts when he uses the services more? What limitations does the contract have? I am not asking for these questions in order to judge, I only want to learn more,don't get me wrong . I can't speak for Canada, I know how the system works here in greece (excluding the last seven years which our HC system is getting worse), for example even the simplest plan costs approximately 150 euros per month and includes every single examination,treatment or visit to doctors-public hospitals, apart from dental and orthodontics, for unlimited use and with no exceptions. there are only copays on each examination or treatment(regardless of the treatment or examination) approximately 8%, without any other payment.
I addition, the fact that employers pay doesn't mean that your income is not affected. In the US, employer may be the one who pays for insurance but he cuts an equal amount of money from his employee's income,so finally, the employee is the one who pays the bill.And if, for example, he finally ends up paying a total of 400$ or 500$/month or more, and with exceptions within the contract (I assume, I don't know of course you know better about contracts there), then I can't see why private healthcare is cheaper or at least comparable. I agree that cost/GDP is irrelevant.The fact that spending for healthcare is not directly visible at the state's budget doesn't mean that it is less because what the state is unable to cover, it is for the people to cover it by themselves.

@GregLocock : I can't see where, even, the equal results are, according to WHO, p.18

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

Also, I am talking about efficiency, quality and quantity of services to the people regarding healthcare,not about cost. As far as the cost/GDP ratio is concerned,CWB1 is right that it is irrelevant. The point is how much does someone pay per month for healthcare services,as well as what kind of services he receives. GDP is just a number which doesn't mean a lot when it comes to real life. What would the GDP matter for you if your state's economy was able to spend 9% or 10% instead of 6%-7% and be able to grant you free healthcare, free education, a really good income and a good quality of life? If you, your children and your parents have had a good quality of life,and the state's economy was able to grow and maintain this quality,would you care about the GDP,bonds,finances,monetary policies etc?
In my opinion,economics is a social science, not engineering or mathematics. People should be first, not spending and GDPs, which also happen to be inaccurate economic indexes.

 

[moltenmetal]

We agree that how public money is collected and spent is a matter of societal values. The fact that people everywhere, even in the US, don't find it acceptable for their compatriots to die merely because they can't afford healthcare services that are otherwise waiting there ready to be provided to them, means that there can be no real price competition or free market for health services. Those services are a public good, and in my view they're a human right. This fact is why even the US requires a very substantial expenditure from the public purse for healthcare services. To be honest, the US spends nearly as high a % of its GDP to provide only the public portion of its healthcare, as the rest of the world's nations do to provide healthcare to their entire population. The private portion is pretty much just additive on top of that public spending, and yet this inefficient public/private combination still leaves people in the US uninsured and going bankrupt as a result of illness. In every meaningful sense, that extra 6% of US GDP is wasted- it is money spent without any meaningful benefit in terms of health outcomes. Sure, it circulates money in the economy, in the same way that a natural disaster causes people to spend money to build replacement homes. Obviously GDP isn't the only measure required to understand a country's economic performance in broader terms.

% of GDP IS, however, an indication of how affordable a program is for the country funding it- how sustainable it will ultimately be in economic terms, and how much of a drain it is on the resources of society in general rather than on one group of individuals versus another. That you don't think that this is important, or perhaps you don't really understand WHY it's important, is an indication to me that you probably need to give some additional thought to what actually happened in Greece.

 

[epoisses_]

@geov86

You said "The reason I don't try in Europe is because, in my opinion, EU will collapse sooner or later, and I'm afraid it will happen with a war! Things are pretty bad here in all over Europe!None of the EU member states apart from Germany does have normal and stable employment opportunities"

I think you are depriving yourself of a great opportunity. You can move to any other EU country and live and work there without any permit requirement. Spit on the EU as much as you want, there are some great privileges to enjoy among 300 million Europeans. I mentioned the Netherlands, its employment market is similar to Germany's - the country small as it is may have espcaped your radar.

I don't get the war reference. The EU is an administrative construction, not a religion. It's not worth fighting for.

 

[epoisses_]

@geov86

"...in order for germany's economy to grow and become more strong, it has to destroy all the other countries within the union."

Any economist can prove you wrong on that point. Germany depends heavily on exports. If the rest of Europe is bankrupt, Germany will end up bankrupt.
Try not to see evil everywhere, man. It's not sane.

On your other comments on the EU - I know Greece is in a very bad position and being butchered by the corporate bloodsuckers like Fraport, I understand the hard feelings very well, although words like genocide are totally misplaced in this context and you know it. BTW I was of the opinion several years ago already that Greece would have better off out of the EU than in, and I still wonder why your country is still in there if people really think it's suicidal. In reality, if you look at how many millions the EU (read: northern Europe) has spent on highways and bridges in countries like Spain, the benefits are tanglible. A Grexit would not be more of a shock than a Brexit, which I find pretty much of a non-event, seen from France.

 

[CWB1]

Geo, yes our private plans are essentially unlimited use with the only significant cost being possible copays for each visit, however we also typically have a max annual non-premium total "out of pocket" cost defined in the plan (most IME ~$5k) which limits copays and deductibles. Granted, it depends on the plan but until recently I never had copays for common services including vision and dental, I paid upfront and was simply covered. As your employer bargains on behalf of all employees and insurance companies on behalf of employers, your cost is no different than others with the same plan and often common even between employers - economies of scale but with competition. Some limitations do apply, coverage of preexisting conditions being a common political cry in recent years, however IME that is a small portion of the cheapest plans for which I believe the workers need to take responsibility. Not to sound harsh but our media portrays this as a common issue and that people cannot get coverage elsewhere. Personally I believe the issue stateside is a rapidly ever-increasing lack of personal responsibility, many like my brother give no thought to consequences so take positions with little/no benefits. I grew up dirt poor so while being unafraid of the free coverage available to everyone here, I really want to hold onto what I have so insure myself accordingly. Your point about potential income being offset by healthcare benefits is valid however many employers see these non-cash benefits as preferable due to our tax code, its a net savings for them to pay healthcare rather than more income.

% of GDP IS, however, an indication of how affordable a program is for the country funding it

No, its a rather poor estimate of program sustainability as it does not speak to the average citizen's affordability or contribution, only govt spending. Some countries likely cannot afford to spend 10% of GDP on public health while others can easily spend much more. The fact that the US has a higher GDP/capita considering we also have a higher cost/GDP shows that not only can US citizens afford to spend more they also have more leftover after this spending, which raises the fundamental question - are we really spending more? One fatal flaw in many analyses otherwise is that they rely upon simple currency conversion and don't view cost of living or other factors, we're perpetually comparing apples-oranges.

 

[epoisses_]

@geov86

I will not discuss further with you, you are obviously in a parallel post-truth universe. I have been brainwashed by mainstream media and probably have too much common sense as well.

Regarding genocide, the Jews, the Kurds or the Tutsi's can explain you better what it is than I can. I have yet to see the pile of slaughtered Greek corpses, but for sure you can point me to a web site that has secret pics.

I wish you good luck in your job search and hope you will realise that you are responsible for your own success and happiness, and don't blame other people let alone entire nations if you don't succeed.

 

[IRstuff]

"Geo, yes our private plans are essentially unlimited use with the only significant cost being possible copays for each visit,"

Not mine, which is PPO and pretty good. There are limits such as 1 pair of glasses or year of contacts per year, limits total yearly, and a lifetime cap. There are very few plans that are completely open-ended; it would be silly for the insurance companies to sign up for that sort thing. That's why pre-existing conditions are such a big deal.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[geov86]

@CWB1 : thanks a lot my friend for explaining more about the HC system there. It definitely helped me to gain more insight both in terms of simple knowledge as well as in terms of my future plans. I will have in mind everything you mentioned!

@epoisses : I am not trying to convince anybody. I am just telling the story as it is (and in my opinion it was a mistake doing that from the very beginning), whether someone agrees with it or not. Facts are facts! Besides, I do not accuse anyone, instead as I said before, I like and respect every nation and its people, from Ghana to Turkey and Germany. What I do not respect instead is the administrations of the EU states, including ours as well! I hope that your reply (maybe somehow belligerent,unless if I misinterpreted so I apologize in advance), may be due to the fact that you misunderstood my sayings by interpreting that I blame everybody else for our woes! If that is the case then I am really sorry and I got myself clear right above that I don't blame anybody! Finally, regarding the genocide, I won't point anything (rather I will end the discussion here) but it will help,if of course you're interested, to read the vienna convention of the United Nations, and inside you'll find how genocide is defined and its conditions! It's the United Nation and international law, not my opinion!

As for your wish, I would like to cordially thank you, and don't worry, I know very well who I should blame if I do not succeed! But I do not intend to let this happen!

 

[geov86]

@IRstuff : Thank you too my friend for your comment. You and CWB1 both helped me a lot in terms of the Healthcare system in the US!

 

[IRstuff]

"you're interested, to read the vienna convention of the United Nations, and inside you'll find how genocide is defined and its conditions! It's the United Nation and international law, not my opinion! "

I don't see anything in Greece that fits that definition.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[geov86]

@IRStuff : My mistake my friend, wrong treaty!I apologize! It was not the vienna convention, the right one is the "United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide", signed in December 1948 and has been in force since January 1951.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 78/volume-78-i-1021-english.pdf

Also, I think we should come back to the point of the topic again as we sidetracked it a lot!

 

[hokie66]

For a bit of levity about the Greek-German relationship, watch the movie "Highway to Hellas".

 

[geov86]

haha I didn't know about this movie. I will definitely watch it for the comedy part!Yet,in reality, most of the movie isn't true. We,as a nation, have nothing bad to say about the Germans when it comes to simple people,and personally me some times I have argued with people doing that (you see every nation has those kind of people). Our problem is with the german government, as it is with our government as well!