More Engineered Beam Issues? 1

[XR250]

This is an 8 ft. span, 3 1/2x9 1/4 beam in the crawlspace of a 2 year old home. It supports 12 ft. trib of floor framing (trussed roof). There are some cracks in the sheetrock near this beam.
1) What material is this? It looks like crap. It appears to be one 3 1/2" wide ply. Kinda looks like an LVL. Could it be LSL? It has no markings.
2) The beam appears to have slight sagging in each span. I did not have a stringline with me, however.
3) It also appears to be crushed slightly at the edge of each support.


No way this should be sagging at this span with only 12 ft. of mostly floor dead load.
My guess is that it was put up soaking wet which temporarily weakened it and it has shrunk a bit as well.
The owner states the cracks have not worsened in a year.

Thoughts?

 

[phamENG]

I've seen solid, but tract builders don't seem to know what grout is. I'm not being hyperbolic. The typical responses are "you mean concrete?" or "we're not settin' tile here!" So when I see a standard block at the top of the pier, my assumption is that it's hollow until proven otherwise.

 

[XR250]

Oh, I have no expectation that it is anything but runny mortar. Same goes for custom builders in my area though.
Never seen a "punch thru" issue however.

 

[LittleInch]

Whats with the cutting down to size of those cross beams?

They all look like they've been badly sawn down for some reason. Sawn in half lengthways?

 

[phamENG]

You mean the floor joists? Those are wood I-joists. Nothing was cut down to size there.

 

[LittleInch]

It was this bit which looked cut to me.

Very rough edges and a notch in more than one joist?

 

[phamENG]

Hmm...you could be right. That does look strange.

 

[Tomfh]

looks like the plies are lapped there

 

[jerseyshore]

It was this bit which looked cut to me.

Very rough edges and a notch in more than one joist?

View attachment 3753

Either just a bit damaged during shipping and handling or possibly slightly shaved down to meet the bearing point.

 

[RontheRedneck]

It appears to me to be an LVL that sat out in the weather for a long time. I don't believe it's PSL.

 

[XR250]

It appears to me to be an LVL that sat out in the weather for a long time. I don't believe it's PSL.

I thought so too but it appears to be a solid 3 1/2" wide - something I have never seen in an LVL.

 

[jerseyshore]

I thought so too but it appears to be a solid 3 1/2" wide - something I have never seen in an LVL.

There are some wider LVL's out there.

I thought so too but it appears to be a solid 3 1/2" wide - something I have never seen in an LVL.

That's almost certainly a PSL. LVL would have straight lines on the bottom where the veneers are glued together. The photo from XR shows strands.

And that coloring is very typical of aged PSL beams.

 

[RontheRedneck]

I thought so too but it appears to be a solid 3 1/2" wide - something I have never seen in an LVL.

There are companies that sell LVL in 3.5" or 5.25" widths. But they're not common.

 

[RontheRedneck]

Another thought or 2 to add -

The crushing at the support puzzled me. I'm wondering if the builder maybe used a machine to set a bunk of plywood on that area. Or maybe wall framing material after the subfloor was on. That would explain the crushing.

If the LVL was soaking wet when the house was built, it may have slowly dried out and shrunk. (They change a lot in size with changes in moisture) That would explain the drywall cracks, as you mentioned in the OP.

 

[Greenalleycat]

@XR250 they're required by code here so it's hard for me to put myself in the mindsight of not connecting them. It's just basic good practice here to connect abutting things together, particularly if A relies on B for support.

From an earthquake perspective (where everything gets moved) nominal connections do a huge amount of hidden lifting to keep things together and behaving as a building.

In a non-seismic region I'd say at least it would help with long-term movements? It keeps the pile tight to the bearer and prevents them separating (bouncy or squeaky floor).

 

[XR250]

In a non-seismic region I'd say at least it would help with long-term movements? It keeps the pile tight to the bearer and prevents them separating (bouncy or squeaky floor).

That is honestly never an issue here (non seismic).

 

[Harbringer80]

There is nothing wrong with those piers.

The quality of construction gives me clues about the cause. From the quality of those piers I expect that there is one bag of sakcrete under them, therefore, no pad. For 6 kips you likely have differential settlement of the pier relative to the continuous wall footing.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with that PSL that I can see in your photos, just some superficial weathering (you can even see undiscolored areas from under the banding from where this beam sat exposed on a pallet).

People saying this is a hand-hewn timber not a PSL have likely not handled either one in person.

 

[XR250]

The quality of construction gives me clues about the cause. From the quality of those piers I expect that there is one bag of sakcrete under them, therefore, no pad. For 6 kips you likely have differential settlement of the pier relative to the continuous wall footing.

I disagree. As much as I do not like production builders, in my experience, they do not skimp on pier footings and they are inspected by the AHJ. They would never use Sakrete unless they simply forgot a footing and were adding it after the fact.

 

[Harbringer80]

I disagree. As much as I do not like production builders, in my experience, they do not skimp on pier footings and they are inspected by the AHJ. They would never use Sakrete unless they simply forgot a footing and were adding it after the fact.

Then you might have to get back out there with a laser or string line. Even if there is a pad you may have differential settlement. I'd probably stick a crack gauge on the wall and have the owner monitor it for a few months. If no further movement just patch it.

You have a lot more faith in contractors and BD inspectors than I do.

 

[XR250]

The owner already stated that the cracks have not changed in a year.
I'm sticking with shrinkage.

 

[rlmengineer]

This is an 8 ft. span, 3 1/2x9 1/4 beam in the crawlspace of a 2 year old home. It supports 12 ft. trib of floor framing (trussed roof). There are some cracks in the sheetrock near this beam.
1) What material is this? It looks like crap. It appears to be one 3 1/2" wide ply. Kinda looks like an LVL. Could it be LSL? It has no markings.
2) The beam appears to have slight sagging in each span. I did not have a stringline with me, however.
3) It also appears to be crushed slightly at the edge of each support.


No way this should be sagging at this span with only 12 ft. of mostly floor dead load.
My guess is that it was put up soaking wet which temporarily weakened it and it has shrunk a bit as well.
The owner states the cracks have not worsened in a year.

Thoughts?

View attachment 3722

The PLS beam appears weathered where the I-joists look like new. My guess is the beam was exposed to the weather prior to installing the I-joists. Engineered beams can’t take much water before dry rot starts to damage the beam. Sagging and crushing over the supports are usually a sign of dry rot. Did you take a screw driver or pick to look for soft spots in the beam.