Negotiating Month-long Leave at new job 5

[aetherTap]

Hypothetical:

-Currently Employed at a job you don't enjoy.
-Just got offered a job at a new employer that (surprise surprise) seems like a better fit.
-Employees at this new job go through a training period during their first year.

-You have made a prior commitment (nothing legally binding, though) to travel Europe for a month in September. This is possibly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and money is not an issue.

Do you bring this up immediately after the offer and hope that they see past it?

Do you work there for, let's say, 4 months to get a feel for the job and hopefully develop a positive relationship with superiors and then talk about month of leave without pay once you've established your abilities?

 

[MikeHalloran]

You have most leverage after the offer and before starting.
Best time for you to take your trip, from the new company's perspective, is also before starting, but if you can't schedule it that way, don't surprise your new boss so soon.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[casseopeia]

Have you accepted the offer? If you haven't, a letter or email that says something to the effect of 'before I consider the offer, I feel it important to let you know that I have plans to travel to Europe for the month of September.....If you would like to revise the offer to reflect a mutually acceptable arrangement...etc.'. You get the idea.

Ideally you'd bring this up during the interview process or during compensation discussions. Don't blindside your boss right after you start, or at least tell them as soon as you start your new job. Don't lie about the reason for the absence. It's too late now to pull it off as family emergency leave.


"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[DRWeig]

Agree with Mike. You have negotiating you can do with the offer in hand before you commit to taking the new job, and I believe most employers expect to have to accommodate prior commitments (unless they are related to other employment or the job you are leaving).

After you start the new job, your bargaining position is gone. You're caught, on the hook and reeled in. Right now, you can say no and stay at your job even though you don't like it. Plus, they have offered you a job. That means they think your abilities are really promising at this point.

I've done it before once. -- gotten an offer, then gone back to the table with something like, "The money's good and I love the company, but I'm leaving a place at which I had earned six weeks of vacation per year, I'd like to see how close you can come to that. It would be a big lifestyle shock to go back to the entry-level one week per year. Oh, and my wife and I have committed to a month in Korea this coming October, so we'll need to arrange for me to be gone then as well." It worked for me.

That's my advice. Of course, according to my wife and kids, my advice is worth a cup of coffee if you add a dollar to it.





Good on ya,

Goober Dave

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[patprimmer]

If you have already committed to accepting the job, you have committed. Do you understand what a commitment means. I guess if you have and if you did, you would not be asking. If you have not yet committed, Mike has it right. You need to negotiate the leave before you commit to the new boss to take the job.

No one likes to strike a deal, then have someone else come back shortly after and screw them over for extras. If someone did that to you, how would you react. If someone did it to me I would fire them on the spot.

It is extremely rare that something is truly a once in a lifetime opportunity unless you are at the bucket list stage.

Regards
Pat
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[MiketheEngineer]

I have had new employees with the same "problem". We either held off their start date or just gave them a leave (no pay).

But be up front. Suggest what you would think would be fair.

 

[SNORGY]

The truth is always the correct answer.

Tell them you have a trip planned to Europe, and give them the dates. If they reject you in favour of another candidate on that basis, then so be it. Imagine what the future would be like with that company every time you have vacation plans, only to find that their attitude is that *they* completely control what time in the calendar that they will make available to you.

You'd end up leaving anyway.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[aetherTap]

Thank you guys for some great input!

OK as long as everyone has already assumed this is my personal issue (haha)... I had my phone interview and the interviewer said "If I could hire you right now I would... I am putting in my official recommendation to have you hired and you should receive an offer in about a week."

So, technically, I don't know what the offer is, however the job itself is something I've wanted to pursue and I'm unhappy with my current location so even with a pay cut I would take the position.

I wish I could be a bit more forthcoming with the description of this job, but I'm paranoid that there would be consequences in spilling the beans. It's an attractive job and I would hate to lose the opportunity by being honest before I establish my ability to perform.

But that's just me being selfish and possibly unethical. I appreciate the input, though. I really do. Haven't gotten the offer yet so I still have time to think about my plan of attack.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Wait until you get the offer - then negotiate. IF they really want you - they will make accommodations.

 

[aetherTap]

OK, I'm pretty sure I've made my decision about what to do. However, I'm going to wait to elaborate here on the board until I get the official offer.

The job is fairly unique in nature, so it may change some of your opinions when I reveal it.

Thanks again for all the input, it has helped me figure out what is reasonable to expect.

 

[ornerynorsk]

You're going to be training astronaut chimpanzees? Sorry, but anything else would barely qualify as "unique" in this forum!

Seriously though, if you are the one they are looking for, honesty will not be an obstacle, but lack of it could be grounds for dismissal after that 4 or 5 month surprise reveals itself. But it sounds like you've made your decision already. Difficult to give advice when truly so little is known about all of the subtle details.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[berkshire]

Look at this point it may be too late, But if you have not already taken the job, tell them you have a prior/ pre-existing committment. Give them the dates, tell them you have already booked tickets
Then see if they will accomodate you.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[patprimmer]

BE

Very good advice.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[brandonbw]

You bring it up right after the offer. You mention you have worked really hard and planned a trip to get your mind clear and relaxed. Being upfront and something that is most likely true, how can a company be upset with that excuse? I accepted a job in the past and said I needed 2 weeks of doing nothing to just relax before I took the job. I think this comes across with just how sincere you are. And most owners of companies are well traveled.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[aetherTap]

Still have not received my offer, but I am still expecting it since the interviewer told me it could be a few weeks before getting it.

I will let you all know how the conversation goes and the outcome when it happens!

 

[aetherTap]

OK, everyone here's the update:

Just got my offer e-mail today. The job I have been talking about and referring to its uniqueness is at The US Patent Office as a Patent Examiner.

GS-7 Step 10, $67k starting salary. Start date was supposed to be March 12, but on the email it has been moved to May 7th (obviously). The problem with this whole thing is that the first 8 months is a training phase where they will not allow you to miss work and fall behind. If you don't pass training, you don't continue working at the USPTO. Apparently there were 3,000 applicants, it's quite the attractive job opportunity.

So... Now my next move is to call them and tell them about my dilemma and ask for a deferment until October when I'm back from Europe.

I'm hopeful but not optimistic.

 

[casseopeia]

My guess is that the USPTO will move on the the next candidate as soon as they stop laughing.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[dwallace1971]

Cass is right, I'm afraid. The supply (1 job), demand (3000 applicants) balance is not in your favor. You will probably have to choose between the job and the trip.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Yup, government is a whole different ball of wax than civilian/private employment. Good luck.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

If you had told us it was with the USPTO, I could have ended this discussion in one reply.

The office has had a hiring freeze for a couple of years now, so the fact that any jobs are available is a miracle unto itself. The training period is go/no-go... you miss a day, don't bother coming back. Once you're past the training period, you can work from home quite a bit, but until then you're spending time in VA.

Start looking for alternatives if you still plan to travel... they'll move on to the next candidate before you've hung up the phone telling them.

BTW, your starting salary doesn't sound right... a GS7-10 is just shy of $60k. To make what you're listing you'd need to be at least a GS12-4(ish) (maybe a GS11-10 if they put you at the high end).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com