Never accept first offer? 2

[floattuber]

I've often heard not to accept the first salary offer, but obviously there are exceptions for everything. Recently I received an offer from a major aerospace company and I consider it acceptable. Salary.com says it's within the range I should be getting for the area.

However, I can't help but think I could be getting a couple thousand more. Every company expects the candidate to come back with a higher number, right? So the question is should I negotiate?

 

[ctopher]

When I accepted my current job, I turned down the first offer. They raised closer to what I wanted and I accepted it. (I knew the salary range and they couldn't go higher)
Depending on the position and how bad they want you, I would turn down the first offer and negotiate.

Chris
SolidWorks 06 5.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

 

[epoisses]

You can always give it a try if you

(a) can invent a reason why you think the offer should be improved, without making the company lose face

(b) have a scenario in mind where you can revert to the original offer if the other side is not willing to improve, without losing face yourself

a and b are not necessarily compatible, so think it through before you act.

(I asked for a modest improvement of the original offer when I applied for my current job and got it)

 

[Beggar]

I once asked for more money and walked away with an extra week of vacation per year and credit for 10 days vacation when I started.

That was at a small company where decisions were made by one dude.

Another time I asked for more vacation and ended up with a higher salary so that I could take unpaid time off and not lose any money. That was at a megacorporation where vacation was strictly allocated according to the published schedule.

My experiences and what I've read here demonstrate one thing: There are no hard and fast rules. Certainly changing jobs provides the primary means for step increases in compensation but negotiating presents some risks.

Each situation is unique and should be approached as such.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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[JJPellin]

I am surprised about the replies to the question of vacation. Many of the engineers I work with negotiatied to come in with additional vacation. It has become so common that it is almost standard for an experienced engineer to come in with 3 weeks or more immediately. Other oil industry companies have a standard practice that gives you vacation based on industry experience, not company experience. I would never consider taking another job unless I started out with 4 weeks as of day 1. But I value my vacation time and have worked for many years to get up to this level.

 

[sms]

The company I work for will do 4 weeks of vacation,

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[BelspringKen]

I don't know your situation.

If you need the work, and don't have another hot prospect, perhaps you should take it as is. If you are a new grad, you are probably close to what they will pay.

If you are working somewhere and its stable, maybe you should ask for more. I was in this situation, asked for more, and got close to what I asked for, plus 4 weeks vacation time from day one. That was enough to sway me.
Its been a good move so far, have gotten into some field work and some new things that I would not have done at my previous job.

If relocation is an issue, you may want to ask for something toward relocation.

 

[dpp8]

Same thing happened to me. I took the job and I do not regret it one bit. I am reminded of that everytime i talke to one of my fellow graduates who are still looking for that perfect job.

DP

 

[plasgears]

My experience is that as soon as you get an offer, others will follow. Have the fortitude to hold off a decision. You may make a mistake and opt for a company that is no good for you. It happened to me.

In another connection, I received an offer out of town, held off, and received an offer for the same money locally. Of course, I avoided the move and accepted the local offer.

 

[esloan]

ok, I got a question now:

I have been speaking with a company, interviewed twice, went in and was introduced to a project manager on the project (on a third occasion) I would be working on if I accept- and went over the general scope of the project. An offer was made (via phone between second interview and project visit) but no money was quoted, we kind of danced around it. We discusssed time / schedule expectations and agreed. He said he'd draft an offer, but I don't expect it to show up until after Christmas.

I am very happy with my current position but have been looking around for something else due to (lack of good) pay and benefits etc. I am not at the gate waiting for the ok to rush out to another company etc. and this new company is aware of that.

Should I contact the HR guy to discuss the benefits prior to receiving a written offer?

 

[MikeHalloran]

If you expect something unusual, e.g. starting with extra vacation, yes, call the HR guy.

A point of order: You don't, technically, have an offer until salary and benefits are agreed upon, and confirmed in writing. Sometimes even then, offers evaporate, so don't quit your current job just yet.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[HVACctrl]

I usually negotiate for more. I have been given more and also been told they could go no higher. I typically never let that be the sole deciding factor. I never felt bad for asking for more. I have heard some say that not asking for more could be thought of as a negative. I'm sure some feel that asking for more could be a negative as well. Its hard to say what the offering employer will think.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[sms]

In the US never even consider an offer without fully understanding the benefits package. Companies with poor benefits will often come in with a higher salary, so you have to evaluate the entire package.

esloan, I would wait until you receive the offer to discuss benefits with the HR guy. If you really are ok where you are, start thinking about what you would consider a great deal and write it down, so when you do have the offer you will have something to compare it against. What would be a great salary? Vacation? Medical? Retirement? If the offer doesn't meet your expectations, develop a counter offer. But you will have to understand the benefits to make this evaluation.

Oh, and don't use "got" as in "I got a question."

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[esloan]

I "gotta" update... sorry couldn't help but be a little sarcastic...

I did get the offer via Fed Ex on Friday. the number was a good one, although after looking at the benefits package, it doesn't really look like much of an increase in salary. The medical benefits are the same although the premiums are more than double where I am right now.

Another difference is the base pay. The number quoted to me is an annual salary. Where I am now, I have a salary but it's based on an hourly rate. The company info in the offer package explains that the salary is based on 44 hours per week and overtime is not guaranteed, it depends on the manager / group leader's discretion. Now... I work a lot of OT but it fluctuates due to the projects. With my hourly rate, I make only a couple grand less than the "offer" in the course of a year. Comparing the two, the offer really doesn't look all that good.

Tomorrow I am going to get ahold of two people:
the first is a former co-worker (who happens to be one of my references) to hopefully find out from him how my company has dealt with possibly making counter offers, what type of raise a PE has brought etc. I don't follow office gossip but in this instance I hope to gain a little info on the company history to prepare myself for discussing this with them.
The second person to contact will be the project manager at the prospective company. Maybe he can explain how "things" work with respect to hours etc.

just as an aside, I work in construction as a consulting engineer meaning all of my hours are billed to my client. This may or may not compare to how you or your associates work, but typically if a client is being billed for my time then company is making money.

 

[sms]

Good luck with that.....I think I'll stop trying to be helpful now....

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[esloan]

I had a lot to think about with that offer. At first, all I really wanted was my current company to counter. After thinking about "how" to approach my management, I suppose I came to a realization that if I went to them with an offer in hand from another company... well, I don't know how they would take it. Even if they matched the offer, then what? I stay here and everything will either be the same or worse given that they may have an attitude about me. Am I a "traitor"?

I do love my job now, it's just the little things that started bugging me that I can't seem to let go. Like requiring my personal vehicle for construction sites. That REALLY is one big thing that I just can't seem to "get over". Then, increasing medical co-pays and premiums right after a weak annual performance raise (but I had received a stellar review).

I know that health insurance is a "perk" and not a requirement, but I look at those as part of my salary. If they aren't contributing to it, I am paying it out of pocket.

I suppose I had to take a step back and decide if I would be happy accepting a counter-offer. Everything else would be the same. So.. I worked at negotiating my offer with the new company. After some clarification and back-and-forth questions and discussions, I accepted.

 

[swivel63]

you're not a traitor. you're looking out for yourself. best believe if you died today, they'd be working tommorow.

 

[KENAT]

Health insurance isn't what I'd consider a perk but I lived in the UK till a few years ago where it isn't an issue.

For me you have to take into account the whole package to see what it's worth.