New Engine Break-In

[04v8s4]

Hi all,

I'm a long time reader, but post very infrequently. Looking for a little advice. I recently purchased a 2012 Acura TSX Sport Wagon...currently ~70 miles on the car.

I have questions about break in technique and duration as well as engine oils and change intervals. The engine is a 2.4L I4 i-Vtec.

What is the proper engine break-in technique on modern engines? With 70 miles already on the car, is it safe to say that the rings have already seated? Is there any point to additiona periods of high-gear, high-load operation to continue to seat rings? Should I make efforts to vary RPM throughout range? Should I limit max RPM for any period of time? Any input on this topic would be appreciated.

Owner's Manual calls for 0W-20 oil that's API approved. Am I to assume that the oil in the car now is synthetic if it's a 0W-20? I'm not aware of 0W conventional oils?

OCI's are 10K miles as per the on-board computer. This seems extraordinarily long, especially for the first oil change. (Makes me think it's got to be synth oil) What are your thoughts on an early oil change once "break-in" is complete?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ivymike]

follow the guidelines published in the owner's manual. The dealer will probably suggest that you assume you have a "severe" driving pattern, regardless of what the truth is, and the oil change places will probably push for 3000mi changes "just to be safe."

If you want to investigate the suitability of a particular change interval for your own driving habits and region, drive approximately the recommended number of miles, then spend $30 on an oil analysis w/TBN (I use Blackstone Labs in Ft Wayne, IN) ... if the analysis says you can put more miles on the oil, go out about 2/3 the remainder of the proposed extended interval and check again. After you get a good figure, scale it back a small amount and keep using the resulting number until you get to about 100k-mi or your habits change (then repeat if you still plan to have the car).

 

[MikeHalloran]

My second Corvair had a cylinder head temperature gauge. It was very sensitive to engine load, but stayed far from its redline all the time. ... until I changed the jugs (new pistons, new cylinders, new rings), after which the head temp would zoom toward the redline on even a slight upgrade. ... for 3000 miles, when it went back to its former behavior, almost suddenly.

So that's one data point that says 70 miles is not enough, by far, to break in a ring set.

I'd give it a couple thousand miles of 'break-in' driving, per the owner's manual, varying loads and speeds as much as possible, then change the oil and filter to something I trust, like Valvoline full synthetic, and _then_ go 10k on a change. ... or maybe 6k. I have gone 20k on full synthetic, and I think that was a bit too far.

Some of the racers around here might say to change the oil and filter at a couple hundred miles just to get the manufacturing crud out, and I won't say they're wrong.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[04v8s4]

Thanks for the input guys, I always know I can get sound advice here!

Seems like the break-in technique is the same as I'm used to - wide variety of engine speeds and loads for the first thousand miles or two.

Still some concern over the first OCI...

I've read all about Blackstone's capabilities and do intend to use their services once I get through the break in period. My concern with using blackstone analyses now is that I would expect to see relatively "high" wear during the break in period (high metallic content) and I'm unsure if this would break down the additive package more quickly than an engine that was past its break-in period? What are the key contributors to additive deterioration?

Mike - I agree with your statement about assembly & mfg lubes and there affect on the first oil change interval. A few hundred miles seems excessive...but 10K for the first oil change seems insanely long?!

 

[ivymike]

I have never been to a Honda engine facility - but all the engine facilities in which I've worked have included a fairly aggressive end-of-line run-in test, including particle capture and analysis (each engine) and flush/refill/filter change afterward. None of my recent car purchases (2003 mini cooper, 2012 ford edge, 2012 ford taurus) have required oil changes before 10k-mi on the factory fill.

 

[140Airpower]

ivymike, If I may ask, what plants did you work at that tested the engines?

 

[hydroman247]

Modern engines barely need running in compared to older ones, the manufacturing tolerances are so tight these days and like ivymike says, they do end of line tests which are not just letting the engine idle for a bit.

Personally, I like frequent oil changes. On my motorbikes I change the oil every 1k miles even though the manual says 500miles, then 2k, then every 4k after that. Mainly because it is so cheap to do and I get to check the oil myself (visually) and other parts for any damage or anything else amiss.

However, if I was in a new car, I would just follow the manufacturers guidelines. No point trying to beat them at their own game.

 

[ivymike]

I prefer not to say, but the engines were all diesels.

 

[moon161]

Never had a new car to break in. Friend of mine used to build race engines. Per him, break-in would often be hot laps before the race.

Interesting article:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[04v8s4]

Some good information here, thanks!

I suspected that modern OEM engine plants had incorporated some type of run-in & testing procedures to ensure good ring sealing...etc. I like the notion that OEMs are doing a drain and re-fill after initial run-in...makes me feel more comfortable with a longer first OCI.

Moon - thanks for the break-in secrets. This is the first "new" engine for me as well.

I will probably perform the first oil change around 5k miles just for my own sanity. Then switch over to my "usual" synthetic oil then start blackstone analyses and follow the manufacturer's OCI.

Thanks guys.

 

[ivymike]

switch over to my "usual" synthetic oil then start blackstone analyses and follow the manufacturer's OCI.


If you're just following the OCI, there is probably little value in the analysis (unless you're unsure about whether your driving counts as "severe" and want a counter-argument vs the dealer salesperson who insists everybody on the road is driving under "severe" conditions - that's happened to me a couple of times)

 

[GregLocock]

When Honda sent over the first bunch of engines for the Rover double cross (XX) project we asked them what the running in procedure was. They had a quick discussion in Japanese and said "Oh, let them run for five minutes before you take them out on the track".





Cheers

Greg Locock


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[ivymike]

hehehe... nice.

Waaaaaay back when I was a piston/ring/liner engineer, one of the most challenging design conditions for the piston-pin interface in certain engines was the initial factory break-in test cycle. If they lived through the first two minutes, they'd almost certainly make it to overhaul.

 

[Tmoose]

Hi Ivymike,

"If they lived through the first two minutes, they'd almost certainly make it to overhaul."
What was the fate of the ones that didn't make it/
Scuffed rings/cylinders?

thanks

Dan T

 

[patprimmer]

If they lived through the first two minutes, they'd almost certainly make it to overhaul.

What was the fate of the ones that didn't make it

My guess is still overhaul, just that it wqould be done to an engine 2 min old.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[ivymike]

they'd seize the piston pin and get sent around to the service area for a new liner, piston, rod, etc.

 

[hydroman247]

they'd seize the piston pin and get sent around to the service area for a new liner, piston, rod, etc.

How often did this happen % wise?

 

[ivymike]

couple times a year or so, if memory serves...that'd be a fraction of a percent. any larger number would've gotten me in a fair bit of trouble.

 

[Tmoose]

I'm guessing those diesel engines had "full floating" wrist pins and bushed con rods?

I do not know what arrangement the OP's Acura uses, or how piston temp tracks coolant and oil temps.
I think spark ignition engine pin scuffing and seizures can sometimes be induced by wailing on an engine before it is fully warmed up. Pins press fitted in the rod (so they always must oscillate in the piston), running with the typical quiet near zero/few tenths stock pin-to-piston clearance seem more vulnerable. In "Power Secrets" Smokey suggested a full 0.0015 inch (diametral) clearance between pin and piston when running press fitted pins in an endurance racing engine. I don't picture a thoroughly broken in stock engine having piston/pin clearance even approaching 0.0005 inch.

 

[ivymike]

Yes, the diesels were fully floating. The wrist pin bushings in both the rod and the piston change shape subtly (and for the better) after just a little bit of running - but if you run very quickly to full load with brand-new iron at the "bad" end of the tolerance band, you can stick 'em. Another way to do it (even with "seasoned" parts) is to run very quickly to full load while your engine oil is too cold (viscous) to squirt out of the cooling jet and all the way up to the crown. The piston will get hot much faster than the oil...and that can be bad news on a cold day in Canada, especially with an Al piston in an iron or steel cylinder.

I've worked w/SI engine pistons as well, and the fit can certainly get very tight (skirt to bore) if you apply full load immediately after startup. In passenger cars it seems to give a modest increase in wear for a little while - typically not scuffing. There are probably some engines out there that fare much worse (air cooled ones w/Al pistons?). I don't recall what the situation is like at the pin joint. The piston itself warms up pretty quickly when load comes on, which tends to increase clearance.