New engineer: Are my expectations unrealistic? 3

[flyhi]

Greetings all,

I finished my BSEE from a competitive research school in California and I've been working in the aerospace industry for a bit over a year now. Long story short, I'd like to learn what roles and responsibilities other engineers have, and compare them to mine. My day-to-day tasks involve reviewing/approving vendor documentation to qualify parts, interface with vendors to resovle any issues w/ parts, update spec control drawings and a whole myriad of internal one-off jobs. I spend much of my time babysitting old design and outside vendors, but never on new and exciting projects. I spend 90% of the day proof-reading documents, editing reports/documents and on teleconferences.

Should I look for another job or are most engineering jobs like this? I just don't know what is and what isn't reasonable to expect from an engineering profession. Personally, I would like to use more of what I've learned in school and have an active role in design. I prefer 'technical' and not 'clerical'.

Any input would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

 

[kchida]

4 year engineering programs don't really have enough time to cover all the "useful" stuff on the engineering side - or so many have claimed.

Now, you want to add networking, presentation and project managment skills to the curriculum?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting that the additional material should be added on top of the existing curriculum. I was just suggesting that maybe they can remove some highly-specialized technical classes and replace them with business/econ classes. Better yet, they should replace the General Ed. electives with mandatory courses that teach practical engineering skills. For example, a technical writing class will be much more beneficial than, say, State-Space Feedback Control Systems. In many ways, engineering programs can be viewed as a "crucible" test to identify bright, detail-oriented and technically-minded people. I've come to realize that much of the material taught in class is not useful in the workplace, which I find very disappointing. But, like HVAC said, "What can be done about it?".

And none of these things were apparent BEFORE you did your degree?

I must admit that I was a nieve young man in high school. But really, who wasn't? My parents were not really in a good position to give me sound advice about career choices. Let's just say that going to college was entirely my decision. More importantly, these things should have become apparent WHILE I WAS DOING my degree. I did manage to land an intership during the post-911 slump; however, it was in software engineering. Most of the time, my extracurricular activites were work (to pay the bills) and assisting graduate researchers.

I just really hope that, within my lifetime, I will find my place in this world. I want to be able to tell people (without lying!) that I truely love my job. After all, most of us spend more than half our waking hours at work and the clock's not gonna tick forever....or maybe I just need a few more years in the "work force" to finally break down and accept reality. Should I settle or keep searching for the "right" job? Is the "right" job even out there? (these are just rhetorical questions. I understand that I have to decide and find out for myself. Ahhh yes, the great journey called Life.)

Thanks all for the responses.

 

[twix79]

kchida,

Just four years ago I was pretty much in your exact position. I had started work in the telecommunications division of a Fortune 500 company and felt like I wasn't going much of anywhere. During my first year I handled a bunch of small things that the other engineers didn't have time for, spent time in meetings with designs and concepts flying over my head, and pretty much felt bored. In my offtime I pored over the internet trying to find what it was that I really wanted to do in life.

Fast forward to the end of my second year, and due to a limited staff and a truck load of work, I was given a corporate wide project that I probably had no business being lead on. But I worked my tail off (I quit counting the number of 80 hour weeks) and loved every minute of it (at least most every minute of it). At the end of the year my VP personally congratulated me on a project well done, and gave me a bonus to boot. Now I'm approaching five years and have had conversations with co-workers discussing that despite all the bad stuff (every job must have something negative), how much we thoroughly enjoy our jobs. Fortunately the hours have backed way off too.

So to sum it up, in my opinion one year is not enough time to judge much of anything. Very few professions are exactly what you learned in school, so if that's what you want, think about grad school. My advice is to excel on every project that comes your way, big or small, and if after 2 to 3 years within the company you still aren't getting much "meat", it will probably be time to reevaluate. From what I've seen, most companies are not staffed enough to not fully utilize their capable employees, so just make sure that you are one. Best of luck.

 

[KENAT]

kchida,

Twix79 made some good points.

Few people are fortunate (smart enough/work hard enough?) to find a job they truly love all the time.

Frankly from a lot of people I know and have met you'll be doing well to find a job you even like most of the time.

There are so many factors that affect being happy in your life, being happy in your job is one of them.

To better answer you original post. In my first year – 18 months at a fairly small aerospace/defense company I had the pleasure of:

* being the assistant to the head of sustaining (Post Design Services) engineering (think taking phone messages, preparing meeting minutes, drafting letters & emails etc)
* minor design changes/amendments (effectively incorporating ECO/ECR)
* preparing amendments (ECO)
* investigations into sustaining problems (identifying alternate parts, generating lists of requested improvements etc),
* assisting with minor trials (think stretching big bungee cords),
* photographing components
* One major modification (which got taken away from me around the time it got interesting)

New & Exciting lol. From what I’ve seen It’s amazing how few New & Exciting projects there are so somewhat less surprising the newbie doesn’t get them. I’ve worked a few new projects and I’ve worked some exciting projects (think condensing what would normally be a 2-4 year program first into first 9 months and then repeating it a couple of years later in 3 months) the two are not always linked.

Sounds like at least some people have had other experiences but that was mine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My two cents!

I graduated in spring 2004 and spent 8 months (at my parents VERY gracious allowance) searching for a job anywhere and everywhere in the US that would have me. I found an 6-month internship position through my school's career center which began as part-time but went full-time within a month. After 6 months I had a salaried position and have been here for a year since. In that time I have:

Processed many an ECO (although many were my idea).
Designed and modified our products, their instrumentation, and their shipping cases. (most of our business is in modification)
Designed QC specs and then inspected to said specs.
Packed a few orders when things got busy. (have to ship those units)
Given a talk (ppt) at a few training sessions, both internal and external.
Attended an international trade show and manned our companies booth.
Dealt with regulatory and patent consultants.
Acted as purchasing agent for restocks and new products.
Dealt with several vendors and subcontractors, dealing with prospective and current mfg. issues.
Basically been crazy lucky to get in with a small company (<30 employees).

I would say I use major engr. math maybe once a month, everything else is knowing what standard/tool/software to use and where to find it. I've seen some percentages in other threads on this topic but I like the one as such (paraphrase):
Engineering is 90% paper-pushing, you get paid for the other 10%.

 

[Ashereng]

Better yet, they should replace the General Ed. electives with mandatory courses that teach practical engineering skills. For example, a technical writing class will be much more beneficial than, say, State-Space Feedback Control Systems. In many ways, engineering programs can be viewed as a "crucible" test to identify bright, detail-oriented and technically-minded people. I've come to realize that much of the material taught in class is not useful in the workplace, which I find very disappointing.

My view of an university engieering education is different than yours it seems.

University needs to teach the technical stuff. Just because you don't use something, doesn't mean someone else doesn't need it.

A university education does not guarantee you a job, let alone a good job that you like. A university education allows you to learn about a discipline. What you do with it determines where you go.

Perhaps a better solution is to make available project management, networking, presentation and etc. as electives available to undergrads.

One other venue. At my school, I can audit any course I want for free. I can't take the final exams, and there are no credits, but I can attend lectures and labs and do everything else. I found a couple of courses not related to my degree that I like, and audited it. I learned, no credit, but that doesn't really matter - I'm at university to learn.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[DivergentThinker]

Like many of the other people posting in this forum, I spent my time at a small engineering company baby sitting old designs, staring a the wall, and making photocopies. I had to stop eating hot lunches because I fell asleep at my desk and removed tha batteries from the wall clock because the ticking made me insane.

I switched companies and now I work as a field/ test engineer. I work outside most days but also spend time attending meetings and reading documents. While I don't do much design engineering, I interface with those that do, prove weak points in a design concept and generally advance the design of a project.

Straight out of school your best bet is to spend time in the field learning what works and what doesen't. Only when you have practical experience will you be able to constructivly participate in the design process. These lessons will also help to further your career.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Well, morale has been higher where I work, but having read this thread from top to bottom, I'm still really glad I decided to stay in engineering after graduation (unlike all of my college housemates).

My first years weren't spent on document/design checking and photocopying at all. If anything, my first 3-4 years at work were tougher mentally than my college days. I would say that a company using its young, agile minds to do these menial tasks is wasting potential. New graduates may need direction and close supervision, but they do have some cool ideas.

 

[kontiki99]

flyhi,

I didn't read all the posts.

Let me give you my take on why some things are and a not brief enough summary of my experiences.

Aircraft systems are in a constant evolutionary cycle for their entire useful life.

That's for a few reasons: Time to market and immature product designs, Customers tend to use the product for decades while regulations and technology changes. Sentinel safety events dictate improvements.

It’s also a regulated business where safety and regulatory compliance is actively monitored and enforced.

All this means that manufacturers, operators, maintainers, mod houses etc. have to devote huge resources to documentation and configuration control.

The FAA (or appropriate regulatory agencies) will generally leave your real aircraft alone if the paper airplanes look good.

I now consider these jobs systems engineering jobs. I am an airplane mechanic that went back and got my BSEE degree. As a mechanic I did time as an overhaul mechanic turning a wrench, as a sheet metal man, as an avionics technician, as a lead man on an overnight maintenance crew and on the flight line.

I’ve worked for 4 major airlines, a couple Part 145 repair stations, I did some commuter work, did a very brief stint in general aviation and a couple years for the Department of the Navy in Flight Test.

I’m now the cognizant engineer for aircraft collision avoidance systems and air traffic control transponders at a large airline. TCAS and transponders seems to have become something of a niche for me.

This is the second major airline where I have filled that specific role. I’ll never design a TCAS Computer or Transponder.

My previous employer operated a mixed fleet of over 500 commercial passenger jets. There were always issues to address.

At my current employer, we have 200 something jets but we have total ownership over our installation. The only OEM support that’s relevant may be structural otherwise everything else related to those systems is my responsibility.

I am a primary resource for delivering the various modification packages that define the work done on the aircraft, maintenance manual procedures etc.

I’m also act as a program manager coordinating internal contractor assistance, work done by outside contractors, equipment and parts purchases, legal and contracts arrangements, certification arrangements, billing/payment issues and regulatory issues for the numerous countries we fly to.

I participate in industry meetings to develop specifications for equipment and processes. I have consulted on government funded projects for security.

I’m still interested in circuit design, embedded computer projects, EMC, RFI, acoustics, music, software development, audio and sensors. I pursue those topics as a hobby and take classes from time to time. I’ve maintained my IEEE membership and attend events when I’m in cities that have active chapters.

It adds a lot of value to at least be aware of what’s going on around me with any technology.

It’s my carrier. It’s up to me to make it what I want it to be. If you only take classes that are paid for by a company, you only develop as their tool.

Commercial passenger aviation is a very tough business. There is no money in flying people around. I believe it has to do with the business model. It’s relatively easy for someone to start a point to point airline then try to grow it. Competition is unbelievably fierce.

For the upper management types the clever strategy options are too often eclipsed by the need to control costs. This really keeps the salaries down.

The industry and military and OEMs still always need people that can function as multidiscipline technical managers and system level managers and integrators.

Aviation in the USMC captured my attention as a much younger man (17). It’s never dull in an aircraft operations area. The closer to the line you get, the more interesting it is. You see and experience things in a hangar you’ll never see anywhere else.

I remember holding a stand for a guy manually wrenching the pneumatic start vale open on an L1011. Small by today’s standards but to be a couple feet from a 40,000 lb thrust engine as it spools up had the little hairs on the back of my neck standing up for a week.

It’s an intense environment. After a DC-9 run-up at the blast fence, I thought I’d run back and close the service panel door as they slowly taxied by. I nearly got myself run over. I had the shakes for a week.

I stayed with it. Some times were really bad (when all the unions at Eastern Airlines went on strike at once). My retirements have been cleaned out and bailed out. I’m finally with a good company and it’s working.

Electronics (and math and physics and music) seems to have become my second love.

Knowing what I know now, if I had to do it all over again, I’d have to seriously consider Optometry or plastic surgery or. Gluttony and vanity are blossoming.

Good luck what ever you do. Sorry for the tome.

 

[shavelength]

Flyhi

Its exactly how you described it.

Meetings, Reading mail, Typing the lead engineers spreadsheets, memo's exc. phoning vendors and craping them out of missing data, phoning vendors and inquiring on data of there products. Double checking drawings and Single line diagrams. Tiping specs for the mine exc. Did I mentioned checking email.

I havent even seen an Circuit breaker in real life or a 6 core cable. If somebody throughs a hard hat at me I wouldnt know what the hel hit me. If I knew 5 years ago what I know now I would have studied something different, took my monies and started my own buss. The most excitment I had with electricity was in varcity.

Life is hard on all of us. I agree with the flyerhigher, if there is anybody out there with an interesting engineer job please let us know before it is to late.

my utmost and sencerest regards

 

[PSE]

shavelength,

Do not rely on others tell you about interesting jobs. We have no idea as to what you find interesting. Take stock, and look for what intrigues you. Then go after it with gusto.

I have gone from construction instruments/tools, into semi-conductor equipment, and am now working with producing metrology equipment. When I started my career 20+ years ago, I did not know my primary interest would take me into manufacturing/industrial instead of design. Luckily for me I realized during the interviewing process coming out of school, that I did not really relish the thought of sitting in front of a computer all day. I enjoy seeing the complete transition from design on through the launch. Next thought for me in terms of career path, is Project Management.

Regards,

 

[rb1957]

i guess the promising thing with all these posts is that sooner or later most people have found their niche.

 

[kchida]

I really appreciate all the constructive feedback and comments. I sincerely thank you all.

Kontiki99 - No need to apologize for the long post. I read every single word in your post and I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective on things.

Overall, I think I feel much better now. It's comforting to hear that I'm not the only one out there that feels the same way. I think I can reasonably conclude that this job is not for me (or at least not for the long haul). It is not a question of whether I can handle the job or not. Very simply, it's just not for me. I can't go on feeling dead, 5 days a week, for the rest of my life. Going to work everyday just to pay my bills simply doesn't cut it for me. I honestly believe that there is more to life than this. Let's face it, our jobs ARE our lives.

 

[KENAT]

kchida,

If I had to do it all over again I'd still pick engineering and I wouldn't do much differently from a carreer point of view.

(Although of course from a technical point of view If I'd known then what I know now I'd have done things quicker and picked the right solution first time etc)

I don't regret being an engineer, there are aspects of it I don't like but parts I do and parts which are just a challenge. Don't give up.

Maybe you're current position isn't for you but do the best you can, learn what you can and when you think you can offer more to a different position go for it. I still believe in earning your dues although I guess a lot of the posters don't feel the same.