I received a job offer this past week from a CE firm with approx. 50 employees. I have been a PE for nearly 2 years and have about 8 years experience. The vacation time offered is no vacation for a year, 5 days after one year, 10 days after two years, and 15 after seven years. I currently get 11 hour per month at the job I'm at do have about 100 hours saved up after 3 years of employment. I think its normal to wait 90 days - 6 months before being able to take vacation, but I've never heard of having to wait a year then receiving only a week the first year. Anyone have any thoughts? I am expecting my first child this May so I will obviously need time off for that.
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New job offer - vacation time 3
- Thread starter ttuterry
- Start date
truckandbus
Automotive
You can try negotiating a signing bonus equivalent to X weeks of salary and then take the time off without (wink wink) pay.
You can also let the hiring and functional manager you think the policy is bunk and get a read off them as to how seriously and strictly they take the policy. Some places don't care if you take a day here or there. 3 weeks at once might be a fiffer3nt story
You can also let the hiring and functional manager you think the policy is bunk and get a read off them as to how seriously and strictly they take the policy. Some places don't care if you take a day here or there. 3 weeks at once might be a fiffer3nt story
It's certainly extremely non-typical, so why even bother considering? Don't you think that their miserly attitude towards vacation will be reflected in their general dealings with you? Do they have more than 50 employees? If so, they are required by law to give you FMLA benefits.
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JedClampett
Structural
Do they offer other leave time? For instance, do they allow you to take sick (or leave) time for childbirth and ensuing recovery? In the bad old days, for instance, there were policies that allowed one day off for a funeral, except if it was an immediate relative where you got three days. There was a policy for every calamity you could think of. As you can imagine, this got very unwieldy. But maybe your baby time will be allowed under that.
Now most enlightened companies just combine sick time, vacation and other leave into a pot (called Personal Time Off [PTO]) and you can do with it as you wish. No arguments whether someone is sick or not, notes from doctors, and other distractions. Just like vacation, you earn more over time, but there's a base amount you get right away.
Now if this company doesn't allow any vacation for the first year, that's unusual. In my experience, it's normal to allow some after six months. But I don't think there's any labor law on that.
However, if this is a deal breaker, don't take the job. Sometimes companies figure things like this out when they can't hire anyone good.
Now most enlightened companies just combine sick time, vacation and other leave into a pot (called Personal Time Off [PTO]) and you can do with it as you wish. No arguments whether someone is sick or not, notes from doctors, and other distractions. Just like vacation, you earn more over time, but there's a base amount you get right away.
Now if this company doesn't allow any vacation for the first year, that's unusual. In my experience, it's normal to allow some after six months. But I don't think there's any labor law on that.
However, if this is a deal breaker, don't take the job. Sometimes companies figure things like this out when they can't hire anyone good.
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- #5
I don't think it is that unusual for "small" consulting firms. I had a similar situation when I was being downsized into early retirement at age 50 because of a buyout by a foreign firm. Got two job offers; one was very similar to above and the other one was willing to give me 50% credit for my 27 years of experience and therefore start me off with 3 weeks of vacation. I chose the second offer even though the pay was about $2,000 less per year.
I would not expect the company to change their position very much, but you've got nothing to lose by asking for some consideration.
gjc
I would not expect the company to change their position very much, but you've got nothing to lose by asking for some consideration.
gjc
- Thread starter
- #6
They do offer 7 days of sick leave per year although it wasn't clear in the offer when I would be able to use it. They also offer flex time which the hiring manager said can be used if approved by my supervisor. I have requested the time off for the baby and also a vacation in June that has been planned and paid for for quite some time now. If that is non-negotiable then I'll be staying at my current job. I feel if I work hard and be a good employee that they will give me a day off if necessary.
The criteria you told of at the possible new job is very typical of what I have experienced in the past. However, for women, I can't say (being male) and it has been many years since I worked for anyone other than myself. Things may have changed. However, for a valued employee, such as one capable of really being productive or a good administrator I'd say it ought to be something to negotiate since you then are a valued employee, not one barely earning your way. With 8 years experience you may fit that description and you may not. Would current employer really want you to stay or are you just another cog in the wheel??
Its a pity that posters like this OP, do not identify what geographical area of the world.. or indeed country they live in. Employment law has major differences between say Europe and North America. I suspect that Japan, Saudi, and Australia are all different with their own idiosyncracies. And I suspect that if the local unemployment rate is say 15%, that would be relevant if ones previous experience had never seen anything greater than 3%
SlideRuleEra
Structural
ttuterry said:
With all due respect, if you are in the USA, you are asking the wrong questions. Take IRstuff's advice. If you have other reasons to pursue this job, play "hard ball". Make your questions count, ask if the company is subject to the Family and Medical Leave Act. The responses you get to questions like that will allow you to see if this company is "worth" working for... I doubt it.
![[idea]](/data/assets/smilies/idea.gif "[idea] [idea]")
![[r2d2]](/data/assets/smilies/r2d2.gif "[r2d2] [r2d2]")
Compositepro
Chemical
Miningman, the poster is from Texas. You can see this in their profile by clicking on their handle. The location function does not always work accurately, however.
FMLA only grants unpaid leave.
No vacation for the first year is not very unusual policy for low level employees. But it is usually easily negotiable after about 5 years of experience. It would be very difficult for a company to hire experience people if they did not negotiate on this.
FMLA only grants unpaid leave.
No vacation for the first year is not very unusual policy for low level employees. But it is usually easily negotiable after about 5 years of experience. It would be very difficult for a company to hire experience people if they did not negotiate on this.
Must be something to do with the particular industry. I've never had a job that didn't start out with 2 weeks vacation per year.
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- Thread starter
- #12
I am in Texas, USA. I will find out if they offer FMLA. I will definitely play hard ball as you said SlideRuleEra. I agree Compositepro that vacation should be negotiable after working in the industry for several years. It doesn't seem fair to have to "start over".
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- #13
nonplussed
Structural
If I were you I wouldn't even consider taking this job unless you were incredibly desperate. After working your ass through school, university, PE, 8 years experience, getting an offer like this is ridiculous. They obviously do not care about anyone's personal life and I'm sure zero leave will be the least of your problems. If this is the only offer you have then just start a company working from home. You can take leave whenever you want and be at home with your kid. I guess that's the price you pay for freedom.
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
When I started in Engineering back in the late 60's, the place I worked, if you were an hourly employee you had to wait five years for any paid vacation days. Now that didn't mean that you couldn't take vacation, just that you didn't get paid. Now this wasn't too bad in the office since we didn't close during the so-called two-week summer 'change-over'. However, the guys in the shop were forced to take the two weeks off, WITHOUT PAY, where the office guys could just not take vacation and not miss getting paid.
John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
The difference between the UK/Europe and USA holiday/sick pay is quite a shock to me. In the UK all full time employees are entitled to 28 days of paid holiday plus 5, (I think), paid national holidays. Most larger firms give more holidays - I get 30. I also get full pay if I am off sick which is quite normal for staff jobs, I have never had a job without it in my entire working life, but the actual statuary minimum sick pay is about £88 a week. Much of northern Europe has even better arrangements.
In case you are thinking everyone is off ill all the time - they aren't. Women get paid maternity leave for up to a year and must have two/four weeks off after giving birth - the details are complicated. There is also 14 days paternity leave.
I am counting my blessings here!
In case you are thinking everyone is off ill all the time - they aren't. Women get paid maternity leave for up to a year and must have two/four weeks off after giving birth - the details are complicated. There is also 14 days paternity leave.
I am counting my blessings here!
Well DerbyLoco's opinion seems to support my point of view on this matter. And nothing personal , Derby , but the attached seems to suggest that you are welcome to your blessings. In general , we've got things a lot better in North America than in the British midlands.
SomptingGuy
Automotive
It's never a good idea to try to compare employee packages and benefits between different countries, even within the same organisation. You really need to decide if you want to live where the grass seems greener. Fortunately as engineers, we have the option to test that foreign grass.
But no paid vacation in the first year does seem a little grim.
Steve
But no paid vacation in the first year does seem a little grim.
Steve
It is pretty typical of smaller businesses, I've found, to have a 'no vacation' for the first year policy. However, I've found it to be nearly as common to go against that rule. I think they write one policy that covers everyone, including entry level young kids, and use it as a starting point. I've never been denied vacation time when I ask for it during an interview. It's sometimes easy to use as a bargaining chip if they aren't willing to increase the salary. I've found that adding a week of vacation to the starting package is often much easier for them to agree to than a salary increase.
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