Non- ABET Accredited Degree

[kram40]

I graduated with a BS degree in Civil Engineering in 1987. The state university I attended offered mechanical, electrical, chemical, and civil engineering programs. During my tenure, the civil engineering program was 20 plus years old. As a student I can recall the Dean talking about ABET accreditation and telling us "not to worry", we would not be effected. I had no idea what the man was talking about at the time. I was well into my senior year before I realized the problem. Unlike the other engineering programs, the civil engineering program at my university was not accredited when I graduated in May of 1987. The civil engineering program was eventually officially accredited in June of 1991.

After graduation I landed a job with a large engineering consulting firm and moved out of state. I've been fortunate throughout my career to work for a good company with many talented engineers. I'm a good engineer and have earned the respect of my peers. I recently celebrated 15 years with the same firm.

My problem is having a non-ABET accredited degree. Even the state where I graduated punished me by forcing me to wait until I had 6 years of experience before I sat for the Professional Engineering examination rather than 4 years like everyone else. Fortunately, the company I work for has several hundred (maybe more) professional engineers. We work in teams making sure at least one responsible team member is in charge and registered in the state where the project is located. I am registered and allowed to practice engineering in the state where I graduated.

My problem is I live in state with very strict rules regarding non-ABET accredited degrees. I do not know how to obtain a registration in other states. Has anyone experienced my situation? What options do I have other than getting a master's degree?

 

[jheidt2543]

The first thing to do is get a copy of the registration law in the state you are interested in. Many of them are now on line for you to download. Since you are already registered in your state, there are most likely options in the new state you are interested in that would cover your situation. By that I mean, reciprocity, comity or actually taking the test in the state you are interested in.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

I don't think you have anything to worry about at all since you've got your P.E.

Reciprocity depends on the rules of a particular state and you can do a web search for "[name of state] and professional engineer" and you'll probably get all the info you need.

A pal of mine graduated Summa Cum Laude with a B.S. in aerospace engineering - but that program wasn't ABET accredited, the civil, EE, Ocean, ME, etc. were ABET accredited. ABET would give their accredation to the programs on a program-by-program basis. Anyway, my pal wasn't allowed to take the E.I.T. since the AE program wasn't ABET accredited. I don't think he cared as he has since "picked up" a Ph.D. in aerospace...

Now, in your case, it's different: you obviously were allowed to successfully get your P.E., ABET accredation would seem irrelevant at this point, especially since your school's program has since been accredited.

My advice: if anyone gets on your case about ABET vs. your PE, tell them to go jump in a lake.

 

[RDK]

I know of one case where an immigrant to Canada was not allowed to register in one province without taking a lot of exams and being required to gain some additional experience. He simply applied in a different province, was easily accepted and transferred under the Canadian reciprocity rules.

Needless to say the first association was slightly miffed. However there was nothing that they could do about it. The supervisor of the new engineer is a good friend of mine and he simply told the first association that if there was a problem it was theirs since the entry requirements were obviously not equally applied throughout Canada.

My point here is that once registered transfer is easy in Canada and I understand that once registered in the US similar practices apply to transfer to other states. (but not all states?)

In Canada a degree is not required for entry to the profession. You can take a series of exams (22 in total I believe) and with sufficient experience gain registration the hard way. I have only known one engineer who did that. He had dropped out of university after second year due to getting married and having a family. He had no choice since part time school was not an option for him and he could not afford to go back full time. He was required to take 15 exams and was hard pressed to do more than 3 a year.

Once you have your P.Eng or PE then the question of ABET accreditation is moot. You are a professional and other states should accept that act.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[kram40]

Interesting. My employer is not necessarily giving me problems about having a non-ABET accredited degree. The problem is it sometimes becomes cumbersome with cost implications because we have to "locate" others engineers within the company who are registered, qualified, and available to work on my projects in the state where I live. It's embarrassing at the least and many times difficult to find people with experience in the type of work that I specialize in. It has also hendered my advancement within the organization.

Any other ideas?

 

[Ron]

kram40...hope things are going well.

Regarding the ABET issue, it might be advisable for the University that got you into this issue to help get you out! In your attempts to get reasonableness from your resident state board, they have neglected to consider that you took the same EIT exam and the same PE exam they require of their engineers, you have 15 years of varied and good experience, and the University from which you graduated achieved ABET accreditation, likely without significant curriculum changes, shortly after your graduation. If state boards can "certify" foreign degrees as being essentially equivalent, then it would only make sense that they do the same for situations such as yours.

Go to the Dean of the College of Engineering at your alma mater and ask if he can help convince your resident state board to allow reciprocity, particularly considering your work experience and exam history. If he doesn't seem inclined to help, go over his head to the University president (throw in a few comments about wanting your money back plus damages for your degree not meeting what was promised!!). Keep going up the food chain until you get a result (Board of Regents or whatever that state calls the governing board of the Universities).

It's a disservice to you and your company to not be able to fully utilize your talents in the same manner as that of other engineers in your company. Who knows, maybe a good labor attorney could make a case for diminution of career potential against the University!

 

[rbcoulter]

Kram40 - Do you mind telling us what is the state that you live in?
I would like to read their licensure laws. Maybe I can
find something to help you.

 

[kram40]

Excellent suggestions. I have approached the dean at my alma mater along with several former classmates in my same situation. The state that I am trying to become registered is Florida. I am currently registered in Alabama. The dean basically tells me that they have gone round and round with the Florida engineering board. He says they are completely unreasonable and advises me that my only recourse that he knows is to contact an attorney. I really do not know what to do at this stage in the game. I was kind of hesitant about contacting an attorney because I did not want the engineering board to single me out and harrass me for "beating" the system or "forcing" them to accept me against their will.

Here is another factor to consider. I have a classmate who actually graduated a semester or two after me (two to three years prior to accreditation) who submitted an application to the Florida board and was allowed to sit for the PE. He seems to think his application "slipped through the cracks" or no one realized he graduated from a non-abet accredited program. We have not discussed his situation much for fear of raising a flag and his liscense not being renewed.

With that said, where do I go from here?

 

[Ron]

kram40...Looks like you have taken all the right steps thus far. Have you considered petitioning the Florida board for an appearance for appeal? They meet at various locations in the state at various times in the year. There is a board schedule on their website. (

http://www.fbpe.org)

They even make it over to "lower Alabama" on occasion!

Since the Florida Board has become "privatized", does that change the picture at all? I doubt that the Florida Engineering Management Corporation has the same sovereignty as the State of Florida, though it is possible. That might make the legal picture a bit brighter.

As for retribution, I think they would be "less than wise" to attempt something of that nature, particularly if you have a well-documented path to getting your result and if you maintain such documentation of your career activities.

Good luck.
Ron

 

[kram40]

As a matter of fact I did consider an appeal to the board. I submitted an application for retroprocity a couple years ago and was declined because of my degree. I think with any rejection they give you an opportunity to approach the board and discuss your case. I spoke with a couple of the board members and they told me flat out that I would be wasting my time as well as theirs. Both members I spoke with said they have seen other people denied liscensure by retroprocity with a non-abet degree and that the board is adimant(sp?) about it. At that point I became really discouraged, skipped my opportunity to appeal to the board, and scrapped the whole idea. I guess this is my final attempt hoping you guys may have some experience with my situation and can me figure this mess out.

 

[zdas04]

Kram,
Have you tried approaching this through the NCEES Council-Record direction? Florida accepts all facets of the NCEES record (see

http://www.ncees.org/records/record_application/jurisdictional_acceptance_of_ncees_record.php

) so you might just be able to slip in un-observed.

David