Non-Competes 8

[evildopey]

In viewing my responses on my previous thread, I would like to know where engineers stand as far as non-compete clauses go?

Are they good because they keep the greedy in line?

Are they bad because they hinder engineers from the persuit of happiness?

All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Bencraddock asked an interesting question. Is it really ethical to ignore a contract you signed just because you don't think it's legally enforcable? You still signed it.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Having the clause removed from the contract would be ideal, of course, because it removes the ambiguity.

 

[TheTick]

Don't confuse ethics and morals. Ethics is about allowable conduct, not touchy-feely guilt-laden moral quandaries.

So, yes, its ethical.

 

[stanweld]

I would suggest that the unethical conduct is performed by the Employer, who knowingly requires an employee to sign a document which is is known to be unenforceable under the law. This is meerly intimidation. It has also been deemed coersion under legal rulings.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

TheTick,

So you think it should be allowable conduct for a proffesional engineer to sign a contract with no intention of honoring it?

stanweld,

that's a very good point. The only reason the employer has it in the contract is to scare people into staying at their job through misinformation. That definately doesn't sound very ethical.

 

[TheTick]

It doesn't matter what I think. The precedent in this situation is well established and clear.

 

[bencraddock]

Even if there are no legal repercussions to ignoring a non-compete, I wonder if there may be some practical reasons to honor the contract? The engineering community is a very small one and word gets around. I know in my neck of the woods that many employers would have second thoughts about hiring an employee that unapologetically didn't keep his word on a signed contract. Maybe some employers wouldn't look that closely or ask questions, but I know the ones that I've worked for would.

Perhaps this is an issue that could be looked upon one way by employees (that it's no big deal), but heavily scrutizized by employers??? Legality or ethics aside, it could look bad to a potential employer who takes non-competes seriously.

I guess one could make the point that employers don't really take non-competes seriously and are just using them to bully employees as stanweld indicates, but that is a broad generalization and may not be true for all employers. I know at my previous employer a non-compete issue was taken very seriously and some bridges were definitely burned.

 

[mshimko]

After reading all the above and thinking back on my experiences, here are my opinions:

1. An employer cannot prevent you from obtain future employment. This is a view I heard several times from attornies as I was retiring from the military but still needd to work, and it's probably the legal basis for many non-competes being non-enforceable as mentioned above.

2. I've never been asked to sign a non-compete. If I were seeking employment as an engineer (or anything other than senior/executive management) and the company asked me to sign a non-compete agreement, I would think VERY, VERY carefully:
- I wouldn't agree to something that I knew I would violate merely because it was not "enforceable";
- This would be perhaps the first indication of the business and management practices used by the company. This would be a reason not to accept employment.
- If after considering the above, I still wanted employment at the company, I would seek to amend the agreement.

3. Where I have seen others using non-competes, it involved restrictions on an employee leaving the company and (a) taking customers/work with them to a new company,or (b) starting a new company on their own within a certain distance of the original company.

 

[Sid7]

No one would like to hit an axe on his/her own foot.

Its the individuals NEED, which makes the choice.(Supply Demand constraints)

Might be of concern in Sales.

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[Noway2]

I recently accepted a position with a company. Part of the paper work that was put before me to sign was a non compete agreement. It basically stated that upon leaving I wouldn't try to recruit the other employees, I wouldn't steal any of their trade secrets and I wouldn't leave and go start up a competing company at least for a period of time.

Regardless of whether or not any or all of it is enforceable, I signed it because I want the job.

I once worked at a company where one person left and started up a competing shop in the same city, using a lot of the same technology. This person also recruited a lot of my former coworkers. The company I was working for tried very hard to bring legal action with little to no success. This is an example of a case where all the non compete agreements proved worthless.

You will often times get the same thing when attempting to buy a car. They will put a paper in front of you stating that you agree not to sue them and go through arbitration if the car is a lemon. According to the atty I hired when I had a lemon those agreements are worthless and non binding.

My conclusion is that just because someone makes you agree to something as part of the condition of some form of offer or agreement, doesn't mean that their condition is binding and enforceable.

 

[TheTick]

The terms you list above actually are enforceable, because they are specific, reasonable, and do not conflict with restraint-of-trade laws.

What is not enforceable is any non-compete agreement that simply states: "Thou shalt not take a job with a competitor, ever."

 

[aj12000]

I signed a non-compete at my last job because like one of the pp, I really needed the job and beggars can't be choosers. However, when it came time to leave, I really agonized over it, and actually paid an employment lawyer for an hour of his time to read it and give his advice.

He said that 99% of time companies never pursue it, but he said ALL of his clients are the 1%, so it can happen and it is devastating. Even if they can't ultimately win and get anything from you, they can file an injunction to keep you from working until the case goes to trial, which could easily be 6 months or more.

My husband stays home with our young children and I am the main breadwinner. The lawyer advised me not to take that chance at this time in my life. I didn't interview with the company that could potentially be construed as a competitor and took a job with another company. I am glad I did, because my conscience was clear and I didn't lose sleep worrying about whether I would get hauled into court.

For me it was a peace of mind thing more than anything.

I signed a non-compete at this job, but it isn't as restrictive as the last one, and I know there are ways to find jobs that wouldn't violate it.