Not getting sucked into CAD 3

[desnov74]

Hello all;

My company had a recent round of layoffs. Since I started taking revit, and it is new for us, Im being pulled to help with discipline specific revit projects.

I don't mind, especially in this economy. I have two points I'd like to bounce off the forum.

1) How do I avoid being a CAD guy?

2) How can/will Revit change the way engineering is done?(shop drawing review, specifications, etc.)

 

[ctopher]

Which engineering discipline? Revit is for civil/structural. In today's economy, take what you can get for now.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08; CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[PEDARRIN2]

There is nothing wrong with being a cad guy who is also an engineer. It can help marketability both inside and outside the company. For me - a piping guy, it has helped me to see the constructability of the systems, i.e. how the piping, ductwork, structural and architecture fits.

Revit as it is now helps a lot with phsyical coordination - although for electricals, that is limited to larger conduits and cable trays. Revit also enables you to circuit and to create schedules - at least that is what it is doing for the electricals here.

Eventually, Revit will enable you to put in smart equipment with all the attributes (voltage, phase, horsepower, etc.) It will also enable you to put in manufactuer's data as well. That way the contractor - if he is able to access your model, will be able to pull out the information you put into it.

At least, that is what I have seen

 

[KENAT]

There have been several threads with similar themes recently, though more on the mechanical than civil side, take a look. For example thread731-232080

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[plasgears]

The hazard is becoming an overqualified CAD guy. On the other hand, current engineering openings seem to demand CAD qualifications. Don't buck the trend.

 

[drawoh]

desnov74,

I know nothing about Revit. I am a mechanical guy. CAD software is attaching more and more intelligence to its files. Perhaps your world is different.

We mechies are transitioning from 2D[ ]CAD to 3D[ ]CAD. The important difference between 2D and 3D[ ]CAD software is that we are moving from a drafting tool to a design tool. You can closely supervise an AutoCAD operator.

With a 3D package like SolidWorks, the person sitting in front of the computer should be capable of making decisions on their own. If you are handing them sketches, you are making about 90% of the software non-functional. Placing parametric 3D[ ]software in the hands of a low-level, semi-skilled person is not a good idea.

I do not see a problem with using CAD. I do see a problem with someone trying to micro-manage a competent 3D[ ]CAD person.

JHG

 

[Gymmeh]

I dont see why some are so afraid of being good at CAD...

I just make sure my boss thinkings my engineering skills are slightly better then my Drafting skills... problem solved.

 

[s0eebuch]

I learned AutoCAD and a little Solidworks - and I am picking up a little Microstation.

Knowing CAD has given me an edge - especially in meetings with other engineers and engineering managers. I have an idea what can and cannot be easily done in the CAD software packages we currently have - and I know what our CAD technicians capabilities are with each.

It allows me to allocate resources for my projects correctly and efficiently. Also, with a CAD background, my CAD technicians have more respect for me because I've been "in the trenches" and understand the frustruations with dealing with engineers that do not understand what is involved in making "...just one little change..." or why it took so long to adjust a waterline 6 inches to the north.

Take the experience because you'll never know when it comes in handy.

Just make sure you express to your supervisor that you are still interested in (and quite capable of) fulfilling your role as an engineer.

Good luck.

 

[debodine]

I do not know Revit, so I can only respond to your first question.

Like you I much prefer engineering work but I have gotten quite proficient in both AutoCad and SolidWorks over the years (mostly self-taught). For me personally there have been two major benefits:

After the massive layoffs in aviation after 9/11, knowing CAD along with my engineering background helped me find an opportunity to get back to work fast. How much of it was due to the CAD versue engineering I cannot say but it expanded the openings for which I was qualified.

Like you also, I have a lot of experience in taking the real world in 3D and creating designs that someone can translate into 2D for mfg use. But being able to model on my own is a plus is when I want to create a sketch to explain a concept to someone who is not that skilled in interpreting 2D sketches. It is very handy to be able to whip out a 3d representation and show them on the screen (or print out an appropriate view) in 3D.

Of course you will want to balance this ability with making sure your boss remembers you are being a good team player but you are not implying you want to be a CAD person for the rest of your career. But I think you would gain some benefit from some CAD experience.

Anyway, my two cents. You know your boss and situation much better than I. Best of success with whatever course of action you choose.

 

[mechgunner]

I have some experience using AutoCAD, Solidworks and ProE. I believe all three have helped me during the prototype design stages on most projects.

I think Engineering qualifications and experience coupled with CAD skills is a bonus, so:

Not so much as becoming a CAD guy but I see it as increasing your current skill level as an Engineer.

 

[IFRs]

FOr me CAD is another way of communicating. Being good at it also helps me visualize quickly or communicate visually without breaking the bank.

 

[hendersdc]

I agree with the posts so far. CAD experience will make you a more rounded engineer.

I would also suggest getting any manufacturing experience/exposure you can. Learning first hand what makes something easy/cheap to manufacture or assemble will help you design with that in mind.

 

[rmw]

I have a question for the younger engineers that is about this topic but slightly OT. I was in engineering school over 40 years ago and all engineers took one full year of drafting. They called it "engineering drawing."

That was back when we used pencils and paper, pens and vellum, T-squares and triangles, etc. As posted above, not many engineers were as accomplished as draftsmen like the professionals who bent over the boards all day long, but we could use the tools to whip out a basic sketch. And, we could understand what the draftsmen had to do in order to get what we designed drawn up.

What type of drafting (or should I say autocadding if that is a word) is taught to young engineers today. This thread surprises me a little.

rmw

 

[MikeHalloran]

I got out of engineering school ~42 years ago. They assumed that you learned drafting in high school. I get the impression that high schools are now teaching CAD, so I don't know how anyone learns to make a decent sketch.

Maybe it's not necessary. Once you get past the learning curve, modern 3D CAD can be pretty fast.

It has to be. I don't have a staff of lead spreaders. It's just me and one good designer.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Bribyk]

I graduated two years ago and we took one semester of drafting/CAD. You should have heard the gasps when the prof announced we would be drawing!

There was a few weeks of orthogonal and T/F/R sketches but the major benefit (and goal?) of that was being able to interpret drawings rather than being proficient at creating them by hand. The labs were 3D CAD tutorials and there was a group project to create a 3D model. Most of the people who didn't use CAD beyond this class, as in a student project or similar, were pretty useless at it when graduating.

As for high school, we did play around in AutoCAD and make a house floor plan but I don't think it was of any real value. Any drawing was done in art class...

 

[Yagonyonok]

My experience was similar to Bribyk's. I graduated 2 years ago. We had one freshman level course that taught the basics of CAD (it was I-DEAS when I took it, and Solid Edge after that). There was no drafting, no drawings, just 3D models & assemblies.
I did have a machine design class that the professor would require us to model some stuff for, but for the most part it was very limited.

 

[KENAT]

Very limited intro to technical drawing in 1st year VI form (high school junior year) using the Acorn equivalent of autosketch or similar for the one or two 'drawings' we had to prepare.

About 4 labs in 1st year of university using 'autosketch', peak of witch was some basic 'descriptive geometry', also one homework assignment on shaft fit tolerances. The next year they switched to Autocad, which was great for anyone needing to do some drawings for their project but who'd only learnt autosketch.

Basically I knew almost nothing about engineering drawing and learnt it on the job mostly from some experienced design engineers and old drafters.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[drawoh]

rmw,

My technologist training was thirty years ago. I had a semester of "Engineering Graphics", and a semester doing tool design projects. The drafting training was not rigorous.

How useful is CAD training to a high school student? I am thinking back on all the stuff I trained on or learned ten years ago and how much of it I use now. Very little. I can run Linux on my home computers because I took a system administration course of Sun Solaris. I have never had a chance to play with Ansys on the job. I do not use AutoLISP or plain LISP for anything, and I do not do anything serious with AutoCAD anymore. I was very good with PordWerfect, but I have no access to it anymore. I did learn GD&T, and to code HTML with a text editor.

What kids in school really need is to be literate enough to be able to re-train themselves. Any practical skills teaching should be done because it is intellectually broadening. For example, computer programming teaches organization and logic. These are useful, even though the language they learned will be obsolete by the time they grow up.

A major problem with CAD is that people do not understand that it is a tool. We hire tool operators instead of people who know how to do the actual work. As I noted above, 3D[ ]CAD is a design tool, and should be in the hands of a qualified designer. A kid who learns SolidWorks in grade[ ]10 definitely is a tool operator.

JHG

 

[KENAT]

Yeah, too much learning what the CAD can do not what you should do with it.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[Gymmeh]

rmw,

I graduated 2 years ago, I had one class with basic hand drawing/material selection/ how to read drawings.
One class with ACAD, Linux, SUN, EXCEL, and matlab.
One class of just 3D.


I completely agree with drawoh and KENAT, CAD is a tool only as good as the user. We have a draftsman which neglects basic stuff, then hides behind the "I am not an engineer..." excuse which drives me nuts.