NX Reference Sets - Again

[Suskam]

I have been searching the threads all day, and still haven't found a solution to my problem with reference sets.
My assembly problem is more complicated, but I have simplified it here: (NX10)

I have a part "A" with a crimped and uncrimped body in the part. I made 2 reference sets in the part named crimped and uncrimped. Each with the other body not shown.
In my first assembly "B", other parts are assembled with part "A", but no crimping is involved, so I use the uncrimped reference set in this assembly.
In the next higher assembly "C" which contains assembly "B", the parts are crimped. This is where I am thrown off - if I change the reference set in assembly "C",
it messes up the assembly "B". Is there a way to show different bodies of the same parts in different assemblies?
I understand reference sets were not intended to be made in assemblies, so I have avoided that. I have seen suggestions to use arrangements instead,
but as I understand arrangements control position and visibility of instances, not visibility of bodies. Any help would be appreciated.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[JohnRBaker]

Arrangements can control content as well as position, but it applies to only Assemblies (actually sub-assemblies in this case). But if this really an Assembly then you should be able to define a pair of Arrangements, one where the un-crimped part is used and one where the crimped part is used.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Suskam]

How is this done? If I make an arrangement, it won't let me hide/show bodies in the arrangement, only instances. If I hide an instance, it hides both bodies.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[JohnRBaker]

You may have to make them separate components.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[NutAce]

Keep in mind that a reference set only works one level up...Which means it will only have effect in the assembly which holds the component.

So to get the result you want, you need to create the same ref sets again in assembly B.

[ul]
[li]Ref set Crimped shows component A with ref set Crimped[/li]
[li]Ref set Uncrimped shows component A with ref set Uncrimped[/li]
[/ul]

I also always love the Statement "Ref sets are not meant to be used in Assemblies" So what are they meant to be used for then?

Ronald van den Broek
Senior Application Engineer
Winterthur Gas & Diesel Ltd
NX9 / TC10.1.2

Building new PLM environment from Scratch using NX11 / TC11

 

[Suskam]

I was trying to use reference sets with bodies, not components. This makes the reference set carry up through all assemblies, not just one level.
So now I have to go back and create separate components for all of my formed parts? If component reference sets only work one level up, that is good news.
This is the result I was looking for, just have to prove it out...

One of the selling points of NX was the multiple body feature - so now I'm confused, what is the purpose of having more than one body in a part?

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[NutAce]

@ Suskam...

The example I showed you is with bodies. It is 1 component with multiple bodies. Each body is in a separate reference set.


Ronald van den Broek
Senior Application Engineer
Winterthur Gas & Diesel Ltd
NX9 / TC10.1.2

Building new PLM environment from Scratch using NX11 / TC11

 

[Suskam]

I must be missing something. I created a dummy scenario (see pic). If I create reference sets in assembly2, it won't let me pick the bodies to include/exclude.
I have 2 ref sets in PART1 (FORMED and UNFORMED). I set assembly1 to use UNFORMED. But I can't get assembly2 to show it formed.

This is a pretty common scenario - it shouldn't be this difficult, should it?

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[Suskam]

Holy cow, I just figured it out. You don't have to re-define the reference sets in each assembly (pick the bodies), you just have to have them named the same in each assembly (I assume they have to be named EXACTLY the same). I guess that is obvious to a long-time user. After I created the same named reference sets in each assembly, I could replace them in each assembly. Thanks for all of your help, these forums are so helpful, especially for us newbies. Now I have to apply this theory to my real parts and assemblies...

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[Suskam]

One more question - after I fixed all the reference sets, each time I pull up the drawings for these assemblies, it always shows they need updated. Is that common, and if so - why? It's like it has to re-read the ref sets each time you call up the drawing.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[NutAce]

What do you mean with update?
Views are out of date? (showing the clock icon)


Ronald van den Broek
Senior Application Engineer
Winterthur Gas & Diesel Ltd
NX9 / TC10.1.2

Building new PLM environment from Scratch using NX11 / TC11

 

[Suskam]

Yes, views need updated.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[NutAce]

A common problem with NX.
Drawing views show out of date while nothing has changed...

Ronald van den Broek
Senior Application Engineer
Winterthur Gas & Diesel Ltd
NX9 / TC10.1.2

Building new PLM environment from Scratch using NX11 / TC11

 

[Suskam]

I still haven't solved this issue with reference sets. My reference sets in upper assemblies are carrying down to lower assemblies, which they shouldn't. I did notice some of the drawings views are related to drawing items (icon with the titleblock behind it), and some are related to the assembly item. Could this confuse the reference sets somehow? Is there any other thing I should check - very frustrating.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[SS88]

Suskam have you thought about using Deformable Part for this instead trying to do it with Reference Sets? I think it would be worth considering it as well.

 

[Suskam]

I saw that option, but have never used it - will look into it. I would like to solve the reference set mystery also, though.

After looking at deformable parts, I don't think that would work for me. My crimped parts have a different sketch profile, not just a variable
that can be changed for different formations. The reference set option seems to be what I need, I just can't get it to work right.

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[NutAce]

Also keep in mind that you can use only 1 reference set on a drawing...

If possible (without divulging any secret information) please provide us with an example of your structure with the issue...

Ronald van den Broek
Senior Application Engineer
Winterthur Gas & Diesel Ltd
NX9 / TC10.1.2

Building new PLM environment from Scratch using NX11 / TC11

 

[Suskam]

I'm starting to think my problems are with the drawings. As I change the reference sets in assemblies, the drawing views update incorrectly. I put all the drawings away, and only have the assemblies out, and the reference sets are correct as I look thru the structure.

The structure might be hard to explain: (I don't want to show a screenshot)
I have the top assembly with 3 crimped parts, the next asm down, those 3 parts are not crimped, but one of them is shorter (a reference set of an expandable sleeve that is pulled back for assembly). The next asm down, parts are uncrimped, and sleeve is full length. So I have a reference set of 3 parts crimped, 3 parts uncrimped, and a reference set of the sleeve pulled back (shorter ref set). Like I said, the assemblies appear correct, but the drawings update incorrectly. I hope I don't have to re-create the drawings. (Maybe I accidentally applied ref sets to dwg items?)

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[Suskam]

I must be doing something wrong. If I have the drawing open then switch to modeling, the assembly looks different than having the assembly open. ????? (I heard that in NX11 you don't have to switch back and forth between modeling & drafting)

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry

 

[Suskam]

I'm going to have to abandon reference sets - seems crazy since that was an NX selling point for being able to make multiple bodies in a part.
This seems like a huge fault that should be fixed in NX. Instead of filtering bodies with reference sets in my assemblies, I'm going to try and
make each body a separate part, and then filter their visibility in assemblies with arrangements. I still don't understand the advantage of being
able to make multiple bodies in parts, if you can't use them (reliably) in assemblies.
Hours of re-work ahead...

Product Designer: I-Deas/NX/Catia
Automotive Industry