NX12.0.1.7 MP1 Measure command drastically changed. 5

[JurgenKreisel]

Just installed the latest mp for NX 12.01.
The measure command has been drastically changed.
Has anyone else seen the changes?
Any comments?
There were several bugs that we discovered and as a result have rolled back before the mp.

I have 10 designers and non of them like the changes.
The PDF that came with this update is very limited and there is no help docs yet.

NX12 Windows7/10.

 

[Toost]

I have played around with the new measure command.
It takes a few minutes to get familiar with it, but it does offer quite some smart , new, functionality .
- All measurements can be associative,
- selected pieces of a measurement can be made associative.

What bugs did you find ?

Regards,
Tomas

 

[JurgenKreisel]

I have 2 PR's

IR 9154870 has been converted to PR 9154870; Desc: 12.0.1 MP1 Measure Distance fails when a body resides in top assembly file.
IR 9155038 has been converted to PR 9155038; Desc: New Measurement is not working within a Sketch.

Both have been flagged as critical.

I know that you can still use the old measure but the issue is that when you use measure with a command then you get the new measure. Most times we just need a value put into the box and don't require all the associativity.

 

[Lars1978]

Can anybody provide a tutorial or an instruction sheet. Perhaps i'm a dummy but I can't figure out how to make a projected measurement between two part points and use the value atuomaticly in the dimesion dialog.

Maybe look into the performance of the NX 12 instead of "messing up" good working measurement dialogs !!

When making a draft it takes forerver to place a note or a smart dimension.

Thank you Siemens



Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor

 

[TaylorAnderson]

Lars1978 --

As the Product Manager who has spent the last couple of year working with the development team to update and consolidate our measurement commands (and as a 20+ year user of Unigraphics and NX who cares a lot about usability), I'm happy to help where I can.

Projected Measurement? Pick the things, then pick a vector or datum axis. Done.

(And if you'll watch the hint area, we actually guide you into this one.)

Want it to be an associative feature? Click the save button in the scene dialog. Done.

Want to copy that value and use it non-associatively? Go ahead and copy it right out of the scene dialog. You can do that now. (You couldn't before.) Done.

Want to save all those measured values and refer to them later? Send Results to the Console and you'll keep a running record during your session. Done.

In the middle of a distance measurement and decide you want it to be projected? No more re-selection or starting over. Just add the axis and you're done.

Like anything new, this will take a bit of getting used to. Over the next few weeks I'll be putting up a series of videos on the SPLM Community Blog going through these use cases and a bunch of others. Please hop on and take a look. There are a TON of new things lurking in here that I think you're going to love.

And yes, we have a great team working on performance, too. Thanks, Lars!



Taylor Anderson
NX Product Manager, Knowledge Reuse and NX Design
Product Engineering Software
Siemens Product Lifecycle Management Software Inc.
(Phoenix, Arizona)

 

[TaylorAnderson]

JurgenKreisel --

John Baker tipped me off to your post. (Thanks, John!) I'm happy to respond.

(Though frankly, I spend a lot more time over on the Siemens NX Design Forum these days...)

>>Has anyone else seen the changes?

Oh, yes.

In fact, I think we've done more usability testing on these changes than any project I've been a part of in my 15 years in NX product management. We had many rounds of very early usability testing -- long before beta -- with fresh eyes each time, to try and dial in the experience. We made a ton of changes from our original design, and looked very closely at some of the good things our competitors were doing here.

I see that our development team addressed both of your PRs within a day or two. You have likely already read the feedback there, but for the benefit of the larger crowd here:

PR 9154870:

This one is really all about design in context. Measuring from the context of a component up into a parent assembly is not a good idea... And here's why:

In the example below, the sphere is a solid within the assembly file. Each block is a solid within an instance of a "model_1" component. And there are obviously three instances of that component in this assembly.

Measurements made in the context of the assembly -- looking "down" into assembly components -- make total sense. We are happy to make these associative, because the resulting values are stable, because the assembly determines the location of each of its components uniquely. That one's easy.

But from within the context of any given assembly component, we cannot ensure that the measurement value will be meaningful in more than that transient moment. In particular, from within the context of any given assembly component, a measurement from the block in the component to the sphere in the assembly will only be valid in the context of that one specific instance. And completely wrong in any other instances of that component. And so we've NEVER actually let you save that kind of measurement. In NX 11 and previous versions, we just disabled the OK and Apply buttons, and didn't tell you why we did it. (Sorry about that.) With the new command, we have far more ability to give you hints and guidance in cases like this. And so that's why we still give you the non-associative measurement value, but give you a big red NO in the spot where you would save the measurement, and then we try to explain ourselves -- at least a bit -- with a tooltip:

We think this is an improvement. In the end, we hope you do too.

But either way, is it clear that this kind of measurement was never possible before, and still isn't, for good reason?

PR 9155038:

On this one, I think you're mostly right.

Right off the bat, I’m still unclear on why you would want to use a measurement inside a sketch rather than a dimension (potentially a reference one.)

Could you help me understand this?

But as it stands, the Measure command is available during the sketcher, but doesn’t seem to be able to select anything. And I completely understand how that would be frustrating.

As it stands, while in the sketch task environment, the Measure dialog automatically goes into non-associative mode (just like before) and actually does allow measurements, though at the moment you need to use the "point" option at the top to select specific points for the start and end. I'm talking with the developer (as we speak) about opening this back up to general Object selection. It shouldn't be hard. So hang tight on that one. And thanks for the feedback!

As hard as we try to anticipate every different use case, we inevitably will miss a few corner cases like this. But I'm thoroughly convinced that you and your users are going to actually love this consolidated single command (instead of the 15 separate commands we've had for years) within a few weeks. If we eventually win you over, feel free to come back and comment again.

Thanks, Jurgen!


Taylor Anderson
NX Product Manager, Knowledge Reuse and NX Design
Product Engineering Software
Siemens Product Lifecycle Management Software Inc.
(Phoenix, Arizona)

 

[JurgenKreisel]

Good morning Taylor,

Thank you for all the information.

The issue is that there are many ways to work in NX.
Most of our designs are a one off and do not require any formulas or association with measurements.

In PR 9154870 we had a body in the top level assembly that was being used in the measure command from within the move face command. The designer did not need it to be associative, but the issue was that the dimension was not put into the distance box after the measurement was done.

In PR 9155038 I did mention to the designer that he could create a sketch dimension and use that as an input for the other sketch dimension. Again he did not require the extra dimension nor the associativity and only wanted to have the value entered into the dimension box which he then used as the starting point for the value he wanted to enter.

I guess the main issue was that these worked in the previous measure command from within a command, but do not now.
I was also a little surprised to see such an update in an MP and not an MR. More documentation would have also helped.
The PDF was a little lacking in information and there were no help docs available.

Regards
Jurgen

 

[SDETERS]

@Taylor Anderson
Right off the bat, I’m still unclear on why you would want to use a measurement inside a sketch rather than a dimension (potentially a reference one.)
We use measure in Sketches a lot. We have a lot of parts that have been ran through the Content Migration Manager and when the sketch blows up, we are measuring every which way in these sketches in the former revision, to makes sure we get the geometry correct. Dimensions take longer and I do not want to take a chance of putting a dimension in a sketch, which may blow up the sketch.

What Impact will this new measure command have on, current or former associative dimensions, that have been set in legacy parts? Does it blow the associativity away? Do these expression still get retained?

The other small comment, We have trained so many users over the years on how to measure. You know how many calls,how much time, we are going to get, put in, that mentions my measure does not work, what is going on. This is one of the most used commands in NX. I just got one guy comfortable using the measure command.

Is there an option to go back to the former measuring commands?

 

[Lars1978]

@Taylor.

Thanx for your clarificaton. I'll give it a try.


Lars

Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor

 

[Lars1978]

@Taylor

For making a projected measurement I can use an axis to choose a vector.
In the 'old' measurement tool I have more options to choose a vector (edge, line, suface...)

How do I make a measurement with a surface or edge as vector with this 'new' measurement tool?

Lars

Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor

 

[PSI-CAD]

Hi,

Are they other new "hidden" new functions in NX12.0.7 MP01 ?

Regards
Didier Psaltopoulos

http://www.psi-cad.fr

 

[SiW979]

I love the new measurement feature for the record. Takes a bit of getting used to, but its well thought out and very well executed, however, having said that, its missing some key functionality I've noticed since posting this.

1: Measure minimum distance local is not supported

2: CoG is given but the associative point that you used to get is no longer available

3: There is no ability to measure an angle relative to the WCS X-Y plane and this is really important.

Best regards

Simon

NX7.5 NX8.5 NX9 NX10 NX11
NX Consultant

http://www.team-eng.com

 

[Toost]

Regarding measurements in sketch specific,
I am still (26-27 years? since the introduction of "UG Concept" )wondering why we cannot reference a reference dimension.!?
- A reference dimension is a "slave", only reporting its value.
If it would have had a parameter name, such as Ref1=xxx, then P1=Ref1+x could have been applied.
Quick, simple and easy to interpret.

I see this request very often, and the current solution is, well, "doing that" , but neither as quick, simple or easy to interpret.
here's a graphic example :

Regards,
Toams

 

[Arkance/PhoeNX]

In response to Simon, you can create an associative CoG point.
Expand the dialog sideways and you get the option of creating a point (associative or unassociative depending on the switch on the main measure dialog).
The point will be created with a CoG symbol when you click OK or Apply on the measure dialog but is an actual point.

Anthony Galante
Senior Support Engineer


NX3 to NX11 with almost every MR (24versions)

 

[Lars1978]

Guys,

How can i make a projected measurement with an edge of face normal as the vector?

Lars

Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor

 

[Toost]

Lars, can you repeat that question ?
" with an edge of face normal as the vector?"

to do projected measurements,
first you pick the points/objects, then select the button "Vector", and pick the edge for the vector definition.
but "Normal" ?

Regards,
Tomas

 

[Lars1978]

Tomas,

Normal to the face I mean.

I can first pick the points but when selecting an ege (as 3th object) the measurement doesn't give a vector measurement.

Oh i got it. You mean the radio button......

That's annoying. With the old measurement i could just 3 objects with the first one being the vector..... Why change this to something with more clicks?


Lars



Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor

 

[Toost]

if you count carefully, it's 4-5 picks both now and earlier.
now :
1) measure
2 object 1
3 object 2
4 "vector radio button"
5 vector object

earlier:
1 measure distance
2 method = Projected distance
3 vector object
4 object 1
5 object 2

But, the old method remembers the type so for subsequent measurements , if these are projected distance type, the selection of method is unnecessary.

Regards,
Tomas

 

[SDETERS]

For me I keep jumping back and forth between the Model and the new measure dialogue box. It is just not about the number of clicks.

The new measure command, pick in the dialogue box, pick on screen, look back at the box then pick vector, Look back at screen select vector. Also if I want to pick a point and/or a face I am looking back at this dialogue box a couple more times.

The old command pick projected distance, then pick vector, then pick any two different objects on the screen, without looking back at the dialogue box.

I would like to keep my eyes focused on the model. Not going back and forth from a dialogue box then model then back to dialogue box.

 

[Lars1978]

Tomas,

You forgot you can make a custom button which directly goes to the project distance tool....saves one click

But who is counting

Lars
NX12.0.1.7 native
Solid Edge ST10
Inventor