Do you think it is acceptable to send engineers (salary, exempt) to do field service work? There is absolutely no engineering/business work to be done at this site. We are short on field service staff at the moment, and so they immediately turned to the engineering staff to complete this installation. This is long hours away from home doing work that was not in the job description, that is dirty, dangerous, and office engineers are not qualified to complete. There will be no monetary reimbursement (besides applicable mileage/meals). Is this appropriate? Do you find yourselves in this situation? Is it normal? Thanks!
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Office Engineers Doing Field Work 18
- Thread starter jut07
- Start date
I guess it all boils down to personal choice. When you get started you can get the lousy hours and the travel with limited compensation, but take advantage of the situation to learn about how concepts are applied, meet clients etc. or decide that it does not treat you in the manner your position deserves and work the 40 at the office and not interfere with your outside life. However each choice has its consequnses, sacrafices and rewards.
Mine apperently was different than most in this forum, but I am very happy for the choices I made.
Mine apperently was different than most in this forum, but I am very happy for the choices I made.
As an engineer that has spent a lot of time in the field troubleshooting, I can say the experience you get from field work can not be valued. As a result of the field experience is love to get to do some trouble shooting, get my hands dirt and work with the technicians.
If you are willing to work alongside a technician and he knows that you can work in the field, you will get a lot more respect and cooperation.
My Dad ran an industrial fabrication shop and when I decided to go into engineering, he told me that I was not going to be what he termed "an arm-chair engineer." I learned to cut and weld steel, cut, fit and weld pipe and sweep the floor.
There is nothing wrong with getting in the field, as long as you learn from the experience.
Ken
Ken
KE5DFR
If you are willing to work alongside a technician and he knows that you can work in the field, you will get a lot more respect and cooperation.
My Dad ran an industrial fabrication shop and when I decided to go into engineering, he told me that I was not going to be what he termed "an arm-chair engineer." I learned to cut and weld steel, cut, fit and weld pipe and sweep the floor.
There is nothing wrong with getting in the field, as long as you learn from the experience.
Ken
Ken
KE5DFR
I think we all agree with that statement, however the original question posed was that this work was not expected to offer a learning experience.
If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?" - Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing
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If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?" - Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing
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1
- #66
With the onfidence of my new employer, I went from designing mechanical equipment for chem plants to managing a field installation of a chem lab addition. It was great fun: going from site prep, to foundations, to steel erection, to concrete, drainage, structure erection, drives and pavements, internal finishes, and furnishings. I also handled ancillary projects falling outside the purview of the builder.
There was the day when a wall mason lost grip of a long rebar, and he contacted a nearby high voltage line. He was nearly killed. We all got sued over that one, and the company fought it out. Never heard more about it.
Then the steel union came around to complain that we were employing non-union people to build a power security gate. I explained, no, we were not seeking to avoid the union; we were busy getting jobs done. I put that job in a later time slot.
I later got the job of plant engr at the facility, and it was the best job I ever had. It included purchasing, model shop, and of course, maint. Any experienced engineer can adapt to field conditions if called upon to serve.
There was the day when a wall mason lost grip of a long rebar, and he contacted a nearby high voltage line. He was nearly killed. We all got sued over that one, and the company fought it out. Never heard more about it.
Then the steel union came around to complain that we were employing non-union people to build a power security gate. I explained, no, we were not seeking to avoid the union; we were busy getting jobs done. I put that job in a later time slot.
I later got the job of plant engr at the facility, and it was the best job I ever had. It included purchasing, model shop, and of course, maint. Any experienced engineer can adapt to field conditions if called upon to serve.
I am among those who are involved in designing certain aspects of processing facilities. These facilities may relate to the oil field upstream and downstream with oil and gas processing through the petrochemical production. The same concepts apply to food, pharmaceutical, power and many other process industries.
I have met several engineers with a dozen or more years engineering experience who have never been at a construction site or within an operating facility. You can often tell by their work practices and opinions about how things should be done. If given a choice, I would not hire an engineer with over four-years of home office experience who lacks any site support experience. I would look for recent grads who paid their way through school working in a construction trade.
If field service is craft work or labor then the home office engineer is not the best selection for the field support. I agree that one should not be expected to perform the work tasks where they lack competency. However, you may never understand what is needed from engineering if you never provide support where the work happens. Job site assignments are opportunities. You can learn about the craft splits that may affect the content on your drawings. You may also see how construction people fix the mess left by the engineers.
Exempt may mean exempt from paid overtime. Many engineers are paid straight time for overtime. Often engineers provide site support working very long days and weeks without compensation.
Job site work is normally more dangerous than work in an office. Home office accidents happen when people get a payper cut, trip on the stairs while talking on a cell phone etc. At the job site the risks may include big construction machinery, overhead lifting, fires or explosions, etc. Those who visit any job site require industrial safety training that is adequate for exposure to the site conditions.
Get over the pay issues and look forward to a learning opportunity. Stay safe.
I have met several engineers with a dozen or more years engineering experience who have never been at a construction site or within an operating facility. You can often tell by their work practices and opinions about how things should be done. If given a choice, I would not hire an engineer with over four-years of home office experience who lacks any site support experience. I would look for recent grads who paid their way through school working in a construction trade.
If field service is craft work or labor then the home office engineer is not the best selection for the field support. I agree that one should not be expected to perform the work tasks where they lack competency. However, you may never understand what is needed from engineering if you never provide support where the work happens. Job site assignments are opportunities. You can learn about the craft splits that may affect the content on your drawings. You may also see how construction people fix the mess left by the engineers.
Exempt may mean exempt from paid overtime. Many engineers are paid straight time for overtime. Often engineers provide site support working very long days and weeks without compensation.
Job site work is normally more dangerous than work in an office. Home office accidents happen when people get a payper cut, trip on the stairs while talking on a cell phone etc. At the job site the risks may include big construction machinery, overhead lifting, fires or explosions, etc. Those who visit any job site require industrial safety training that is adequate for exposure to the site conditions.
Get over the pay issues and look forward to a learning opportunity. Stay safe.
Pipeline1972
Mechanical
Interesting topic.
Back in Belgium, where i'm from, performing tasks that are not in your scope of work, are simply not allowed. For example, if you're an engineer, and you designed a whole piping installation, you can go on field, supervise, do surveys, etc, but you can't perform "dirty" work, like tightening up a bolt, moving a piece of pipe,... You can't even pick up a wrench! It's an insurance thing. Insurances don't cover you for accidents when doing something you're not supposed to. And if a manager insists that you do dirty work, he'll have the unions on his back!
Process - Piping
ing - EiT
Back in Belgium, where i'm from, performing tasks that are not in your scope of work, are simply not allowed. For example, if you're an engineer, and you designed a whole piping installation, you can go on field, supervise, do surveys, etc, but you can't perform "dirty" work, like tightening up a bolt, moving a piece of pipe,... You can't even pick up a wrench! It's an insurance thing. Insurances don't cover you for accidents when doing something you're not supposed to. And if a manager insists that you do dirty work, he'll have the unions on his back!
Process - Piping
ing - EiT
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- #69
and yes. sometimes those technicians know more than you. i had a 70 year old iron worker school me on slab bar placement. and this guy had at best a HS diploma. just because you're an engineer, doesn't mean you can't learn from the little guys.
My personal view is if you're a mechanical engineer (I'm only speaking for my own discipline), you better be able to both troubleshoot your own equipment (meaning field service) and be very mechanically inclined (being actually able to fix the problem with your own hands).
Like swivel63 said, there is so much to learn out on the field. You may encounter more problems than you hoped for, but those problems spur engineering ideas. It develops teamwork, design skills and, most importantly, the ability to think on your feet. Besides, we need to get out the office every now and then simply for the betterment of our health.
Engineering is not just in front of the computer. It encompasses everything from design and development, scheduling and allocating funds, manufacturing, delivery of product and making sure that product performs as intended.
Kyle Chandler
Like swivel63 said, there is so much to learn out on the field. You may encounter more problems than you hoped for, but those problems spur engineering ideas. It develops teamwork, design skills and, most importantly, the ability to think on your feet. Besides, we need to get out the office every now and then simply for the betterment of our health.
Engineering is not just in front of the computer. It encompasses everything from design and development, scheduling and allocating funds, manufacturing, delivery of product and making sure that product performs as intended.
Kyle Chandler
Also, I'm sure many industries are different, but when the work demands it, you must find the most qualified person to do that work. Sometimes it's the engineer, sometimes it's the machinist, etc. But the point is, you the engineer should understand those peoples' jobs in at least a basic sense to communicate with them intelligently and to delegate project responsibilities when the times comes.
We can learn quite a bit from someone who does field work as their profession.
Kyle Chandler
We can learn quite a bit from someone who does field work as their profession.
Kyle Chandler
GregLocock
Automotive
"We can learn quite a bit from someone who does field work as their profession"
NSS
as we say.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
NSS
as we say.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
GregLocock
Automotive
No (surprise) Sherlock
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.- Status
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