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oil leak gulf of mexico 5
- Thread starter CH5OH
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #21
I did spend 6.5 years effective at sea, as a chief engineer of which about 3 years in the offshore business (thunder horse,...), I've seen the capabilities of an ROV and there shortcomings.
a bolt and nut would work perfectly in the hands of a human.
working with an ROV on the depth, you probably loose a hand already, occupying it grabbing hold of something, fighting the currents.then you have the hydraulics moving the arms, affected by the surrounding pressure, which makes a smooth move of the operator, translate in to a spastic move of the ROV arms, then you got a long umbillical which is subject to current and causes drag of the ROV.
I do have a clue...
but again, are we dealing with sealing of a well or leaving the opportunity to reexploiting it?
a bolt and nut would work perfectly in the hands of a human.
working with an ROV on the depth, you probably loose a hand already, occupying it grabbing hold of something, fighting the currents.then you have the hydraulics moving the arms, affected by the surrounding pressure, which makes a smooth move of the operator, translate in to a spastic move of the ROV arms, then you got a long umbillical which is subject to current and causes drag of the ROV.
I do have a clue...
but again, are we dealing with sealing of a well or leaving the opportunity to reexploiting it?
- Thread starter
- #22
I heard on the news today they are playing with the idea to pump concrete into the pipe....
mighty powerfull pump needed...
the (failing) main shut off valve would that be a ball valve (eg a 90deg swing to operate)?
what dimensions has this vertical riser (which is fractured at 3 places)?
how far is the first fracture away from the main shut of valve?
does it really comes down to the (un)ability to screw/unscrew a nut?
mighty powerfull pump needed...
the (failing) main shut off valve would that be a ball valve (eg a 90deg swing to operate)?
what dimensions has this vertical riser (which is fractured at 3 places)?
how far is the first fracture away from the main shut of valve?
does it really comes down to the (un)ability to screw/unscrew a nut?
I think this one will be sealed ... and never never never reopened; at least while there is still oil to be had from grinding olives. A bit of a Pandora's Box this one is .. I think .. I think. I'm afraid there's going to be a lot of fishemen that will thinking this oneis the GOM's Chernobyl, when its finally over and done with. If it goes on for another 90 days, the potential is somewhere between 2.5 and 13 Valdez equivalents, depending on fnal concentrations over the area affected.
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"The problem isn't finding the solution, its trying to get to the real question." BigInch
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"The problem isn't finding the solution, its trying to get to the real question." BigInch
- Thread starter
- #24
OMG! Been away from the GOM so long now, I managed to forget about that. Hopefully they will be late in arriving this year.
Just noticed that. Is it a coincidence that rearranging OMG = GOM ??
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"The problem isn't finding the solution, its trying to get to the real question." BigInch
Just noticed that. Is it a coincidence that rearranging OMG = GOM ??
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"The problem isn't finding the solution, its trying to get to the real question." BigInch
Morton, That's a good one too.
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"Being GREEN isn't easy"![[frog]](/data/assets/smilies/frog.gif "[frog] [frog]")
Kermit
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy"
Kermit
EngineerTex
Mechanical
pipelyer said:
I'm actually pretty fearful of what changes of legislation will come about in light of these circumstances. I see no benefit to having legislators try to become engineers. We can sit and argue back and forth about well design all day long, but when we step back from the problem, we all have to admit that regardless of legislation, we are still looking at billion-dollar machines drilling holes in the seafloor.
Legislation can only make things worse. Do we really think that some legislators are going to pass laws that provide procedures that are better than the practices developed by API (American Petroleum Institute)? My opinion is no. What we can guarantee is that laws will be passed to help political cronies, while billions of dollars of excess costs will be passed to the consumer through higher prices for the purpose of addressing superfluous legislation.
You can pass all the laws in the world and you're still going to have a big machine poking holes in the seafloor. Legislation does not keep machines from breaking.
ASME and UL were both founded by the insurance industry. Do we think that politicians are going to do better?
Engineering is not the science behind building. It is the science behind not building.
The mechanism that you describe has gotten us this far. Which has probably got a lot to do with how this situation developed. At least they split the MMS, one half will make regulations, the other half will police. That's somewhat better. At least the fox and the chickens now have a short fence between them.
The net effect is that legislation does not keep machines working either. The BOP is required by legislation now and apparently wasn't in proper working order, according to its maker, Cameron.
ASME and UL, etc. etc. etc. are all somewhat at least as biased towards their respective industries as legislation is towards lobby effects. With that, you're never even sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I just do what I think is right. I never worry about what the legislation and regulations say, as long as I exceed their minimum requirements every time I think I need to. That way my designs and operations are as safe as I can make them, rather than what some no-nothing lobbiest or legislator or building code thinks. Those things are looking at some average design requirements. I'm looking at the nuts, bolts and welds and the depth of pipe in the ground. If I need an air strike, I call it in.
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy"
.... Kermit
The net effect is that legislation does not keep machines working either. The BOP is required by legislation now and apparently wasn't in proper working order, according to its maker, Cameron.
ASME and UL, etc. etc. etc. are all somewhat at least as biased towards their respective industries as legislation is towards lobby effects. With that, you're never even sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I just do what I think is right. I never worry about what the legislation and regulations say, as long as I exceed their minimum requirements every time I think I need to. That way my designs and operations are as safe as I can make them, rather than what some no-nothing lobbiest or legislator or building code thinks. Those things are looking at some average design requirements. I'm looking at the nuts, bolts and welds and the depth of pipe in the ground. If I need an air strike, I call it in.
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy"
....
Kermit -
1
- #30
- Thread starter
- #31
rconner,I am not a well expert myself, but I have been told,
when they first start to exploit a well, pressure would be something like 2000-2500bar, after relative short a period, the pressure drops down a bit and remains about constant for a longer period.I assume this has to do that a well contains not only oil but also gas (methane)
the 1500bar is a guesstimate.
when they first start to exploit a well, pressure would be something like 2000-2500bar, after relative short a period, the pressure drops down a bit and remains about constant for a longer period.I assume this has to do that a well contains not only oil but also gas (methane)
the 1500bar is a guesstimate.
I understand that there was legislation to limit liability as a result of the Valdez problem and that a cap of $75M is in place.
Obama keeps stating that BP has accepted full financial responsibility; I haven't seen anything from BP... as a business, with responsibility to shareholders, I would have difficulty accepting financial responsibility beyond the legislated $75M... Also BP keeps getting blamed, but the BOP and rig were by others...
Could make for interesting legal times... Has anyone come across a statement from BP that unequivacally states that they will pay for the cleanup? or that the $75M cap is not in effect?
Dik
Obama keeps stating that BP has accepted full financial responsibility; I haven't seen anything from BP... as a business, with responsibility to shareholders, I would have difficulty accepting financial responsibility beyond the legislated $75M... Also BP keeps getting blamed, but the BOP and rig were by others...
Could make for interesting legal times... Has anyone come across a statement from BP that unequivacally states that they will pay for the cleanup? or that the $75M cap is not in effect?
Dik
Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer
Thanks for the response, Steve.
"BP will pay all necessary response costs and is committed to paying legitimate claims for other loss and/or damage caused by the Deepwater Horizon incident."
I've been involved with a lot of work for Insurance Companies and Lawyers and a lot could fall through what they consider 'necessary' and 'legitimate'... and have the claims, to date, exceeded the $75M cap? kicking in the legitimate component, namely, "I'm sorry, your clame has been disallowed, by law, BP is not required to cover this claim."
Dik
"BP will pay all necessary response costs and is committed to paying legitimate claims for other loss and/or damage caused by the Deepwater Horizon incident."
I've been involved with a lot of work for Insurance Companies and Lawyers and a lot could fall through what they consider 'necessary' and 'legitimate'... and have the claims, to date, exceeded the $75M cap? kicking in the legitimate component, namely, "I'm sorry, your clame has been disallowed, by law, BP is not required to cover this claim."
Dik
Hey it's a start, but you're right, we'll have to see what legit, appropriate really means.
In any case, if anyone's got a claim, it'd be better to get in before they hit that 75M.
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"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
In any case, if anyone's got a claim, it'd be better to get in before they hit that 75M.
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"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
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1
- #37
9t about 3:45 PM CDST the live picture of the leaks (CNN) at the bent drilling riser were occluded with a cloud of mud/oil/whatever coming from below the leaking area. There has been no explanation as of yet other than the NYT is reporting that they have stopped pumping mud for the second time.
FYI{
The mud weight is quoted at 16 pounds.
The pressure they are worried about exceeding is 17,000 psig. This is supposedly related to the drilling riser.
One statement said that that they have 30,000 hp worth of pumps available while another source said that the pumps were capable of 30,000 psig, take your pick.
FYI{
The mud weight is quoted at 16 pounds.
The pressure they are worried about exceeding is 17,000 psig. This is supposedly related to the drilling riser.
One statement said that that they have 30,000 hp worth of pumps available while another source said that the pumps were capable of 30,000 psig, take your pick.
16 lbs/gal I presume.
I think it's probably both 30,000 psi and 30,000 Hp
split between 4 pumps 7.5ksi and 7.5kHp each?
in groups of 2 (one group is standby, or emergency capacity)
and can be configured in series or parallel
series parallel
30000 30000 hp
30000 17000 psi
36000 20400 ft head
7855 4451 hydraulic Hp per cfs
0.7 eff
11221 6358 brake Hp per cfs
2.7 4.7 cfs total capacity
20.0 35.3 gps total capacity
1200 2118 gpm total capacity
28.6 50.4 bbls/m total capacity
41143 72605 bbls/day total capacity
20571 36302 bbls/day each
Flow Range capacity 10.2 KBOPD to 72.6 BOPD
10286 BOPD: Half capacity of one pump
20571 BOPD: Maybe too many units and press for this config
Or for once there is more than enough standby capacity.
36302 BOPD: one group running, one group on standby
41143 BOPD: again prob too much pipe press for this flow
72604 BOPD: Oh Crap Emergency capacity
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
I think it's probably both 30,000 psi and 30,000 Hp
split between 4 pumps 7.5ksi and 7.5kHp each?
in groups of 2 (one group is standby, or emergency capacity)
and can be configured in series or parallel
series parallel
30000 30000 hp
30000 17000 psi
36000 20400 ft head
7855 4451 hydraulic Hp per cfs
0.7 eff
11221 6358 brake Hp per cfs
2.7 4.7 cfs total capacity
20.0 35.3 gps total capacity
1200 2118 gpm total capacity
28.6 50.4 bbls/m total capacity
41143 72605 bbls/day total capacity
20571 36302 bbls/day each
Flow Range capacity 10.2 KBOPD to 72.6 BOPD
10286 BOPD: Half capacity of one pump
20571 BOPD: Maybe too many units and press for this config
Or for once there is more than enough standby capacity.
36302 BOPD: one group running, one group on standby
41143 BOPD: again prob too much pipe press for this flow
72604 BOPD: Oh Crap Emergency capacity
"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward CEO, BP
**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
Here is the scheme of things supposedly as it now stands.
A strange place to find information. Go down to the "Oil Drum" Leak header and read more.
BigInch
Here is primer on Drilling fluids.
Thanks for the analysis. The CEO has been asked about some of the pressures involved several times and his comments are always that everyone is too busy to provide any outside information.
Addenda:
Early on in the reporting of this event there was an interview with a survivor of the accident who was in a position to give some of the preliminary events. One of his comments was that some time before the event happened a mud pump operator reported that he was finding relative large chunks of rubber on his filter screens on the returning mud. This gentleman said that this rubber could have only come from the "annular valve" at the top of the BOP. As I understand it the purpose of this valve is to seal the annular space between a restricting bushing and the drill pipe when they want to shut the well off from the riser. He stated that someone inadvertently pulled about 15' of drill pipe through the closed valve. This valve acts like a hydraulic collet.
My in-laws who work offshore had been put under a "Don't Tell if Asked" policy. To get close to the truth about about the events preceding the accident it would take a criminal indictment to get even half truths. Have them brought before a Federal Grand Jury and have a jar of Petroleum Jelly on the table.
A strange place to find information. Go down to the "Oil Drum" Leak header and read more.
BigInch
Here is primer on Drilling fluids.
Thanks for the analysis. The CEO has been asked about some of the pressures involved several times and his comments are always that everyone is too busy to provide any outside information.
Addenda:
Early on in the reporting of this event there was an interview with a survivor of the accident who was in a position to give some of the preliminary events. One of his comments was that some time before the event happened a mud pump operator reported that he was finding relative large chunks of rubber on his filter screens on the returning mud. This gentleman said that this rubber could have only come from the "annular valve" at the top of the BOP. As I understand it the purpose of this valve is to seal the annular space between a restricting bushing and the drill pipe when they want to shut the well off from the riser. He stated that someone inadvertently pulled about 15' of drill pipe through the closed valve. This valve acts like a hydraulic collet.
My in-laws who work offshore had been put under a "Don't Tell if Asked" policy. To get close to the truth about about the events preceding the accident it would take a criminal indictment to get even half truths. Have them brought before a Federal Grand Jury and have a jar of Petroleum Jelly on the table.
Here is the scheme of things supposedly as it now stands.
A strange place to find information. Go down to the "Oil Drum" Leak header and read more.
BigInch
Here is primer on Drilling fluids.
Thanks for the analysis. The CEO has been asked about some of the pressures involved several times and his comments are always that everyone is too busy to provide any outside information.
Checkout BigInch's reply of May 29 @ 6:53 in thread311-2715. One or two hard numbers from BP and his analysis would tell you exactly what's going on. Apparently they are giving this information to anyone not even the US Government. Our government people at all levels measure the money received from the oil patch in barrels.
Addenda:
Early on in the reporting of this event there was an interview with a survivor of the accident who was in a position to give some of the preliminary events. One of his comments was that some time before the event happened a mud pump operator reported that he was finding relative large chunks of rubber on his filter screens on the returning mud. This gentleman said that this rubber could have only come from the "annular valve" at the top of the BOP. As I understand it the purpose of this valve is to seal the annular space between a restricting bushing and the drill pipe when they want to shut the well off from the riser. He stated that someone inadvertently pulled about 15' of drill pipe through the closed valve. This valve acts like a hydraulic collet.
My in-laws who work offshore had been put under a "Don't Tell if Asked" policy. To get close to the truth about about the events preceding the accident it would take a criminal indictment to get even half truths. Have them brought before a Federal Grand Jury and have a jar of Petroleum Jelly on the table.
If you get a chance checkout the National Geographic Film. Right at the end you can briefly see a very large oil flow from the well head with an unbent riser. It worries me if they cut the drilling riser below the kink they could possibly have this flow again.
A strange place to find information. Go down to the "Oil Drum" Leak header and read more.
BigInch
Here is primer on Drilling fluids.
Thanks for the analysis. The CEO has been asked about some of the pressures involved several times and his comments are always that everyone is too busy to provide any outside information.
Checkout BigInch's reply of May 29 @ 6:53 in thread311-2715. One or two hard numbers from BP and his analysis would tell you exactly what's going on. Apparently they are giving this information to anyone not even the US Government. Our government people at all levels measure the money received from the oil patch in barrels.
Addenda:
Early on in the reporting of this event there was an interview with a survivor of the accident who was in a position to give some of the preliminary events. One of his comments was that some time before the event happened a mud pump operator reported that he was finding relative large chunks of rubber on his filter screens on the returning mud. This gentleman said that this rubber could have only come from the "annular valve" at the top of the BOP. As I understand it the purpose of this valve is to seal the annular space between a restricting bushing and the drill pipe when they want to shut the well off from the riser. He stated that someone inadvertently pulled about 15' of drill pipe through the closed valve. This valve acts like a hydraulic collet.
My in-laws who work offshore had been put under a "Don't Tell if Asked" policy. To get close to the truth about about the events preceding the accident it would take a criminal indictment to get even half truths. Have them brought before a Federal Grand Jury and have a jar of Petroleum Jelly on the table.
If you get a chance checkout the National Geographic Film. Right at the end you can briefly see a very large oil flow from the well head with an unbent riser. It worries me if they cut the drilling riser below the kink they could possibly have this flow again.
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