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Orimulsion II : 2

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jmw,

Thanks for the update.

Regards,

athomas236
 
Quick Intro - I am a recent Chem Eng. graduate (Texas A&M) and am now working in the consulting business.

I am doing a study on alternative fuels, which includes Orimulsion and other emulsified bitumen fuels such as MSAR.

I am interested in the operating problems/issues that may come up when using these types of fuels. Specificially, is it possible that any of the following would be experienced: increased fouling, increased slagging, incomplete combustion, need to co-fire with natural gas, problems with fuel-handling, or any other operating issues that would need to be considered when deciding to use an emulsified bitumen fuel.

I have looked through the old thread and noticed athomas236 post about the operating experience with Orimulsion used at some power plants.

Most of the links are dead on the archived thread. If anyone has any sources that might help me, please post them.

Thanks


Mike
 
“Orimulsion® is a registered trademark name for a bitumen-based fuel that was developed for industrial use by Intevep, the Research and Development Affiliate of Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA), following earlier collaboration on oil emulsions with British Petroleum. The bitumen occurs naturally and is obtained from the world's largest deposit in the Orinoco Belt in Venezuela. Reserves are estimated at more than 1.2 trillion barrels (190,000,000 m³) of bitumen, an amount greater than 50% of the world's estimated oil reserves.
Raw bitumen has an extremely high viscosity, between 8 to 10 API degrees, at ambient temperatures and is unsuitable for direct use in conventional power stations. Orimulsion is made by mixing the bitumen with about 30% fresh water and a small amount of surfactant. The result behaves similarly to fuel oil. An alcohol-based surfactant recently replaced the original phenol-based version; improving the transport properties of the fuel and eliminating the health concerns associated with the phenol group of surfactants.
As a fuel for electricity generation, Orimulsion has a number of attractive characteristics:
the known reserves of bitumen are very large;
it is currently priced to be competitive with internationally traded coal;
it is relatively easy and safe to produce, transport, handle and store;
it is easy to ignite and has good combustion characteristics;
it can be used in power stations designed to run on coal or heavy fuel oil, with suitable modification.”
ChemEz For more information about this subject go to:


Luis
 
some problems with orimulsion might include:

a) getting a long term supply contract for the fuel source- I understand Venezuela has discontinued new contracts because they have targeted this fuel source as being more profitable when used as a feedstock for bitumen-to-oil processes.

b)the flyash has a very high vanadium content. This could make ash disposal difficult, unless the vanadium is being recovered for its commodity value.

c) vanadium can also cause high temp corrosion of superheater and reheater tubes in the boiler, if the tube surface temp exceeds about ( 1100 F ?).

d) as I recall, the vanadium can also cause a eutectic slag to form if there is also injected sodium for precipitator enhancement.

e)depending on the surfactant or plasicizer used to maintain the fine particles in suspension during storage of the orimulsion liquid, there is a finite storage time permitted for the liquid.

f) getting the liquid to ignite was a big problem 18 yrs ago- there were some jokes to the tune that they would make a bigger profit if they refilled the fire extenguishers with orimulsion, as it was excellent for putting a fire out.
 

Well, it would appear from this article that Hugo Chavez has found a new outlet for Orimulsion..... all 270 billion barrels of it...

If China has bagged the whole supply, this could be bad news for everyone else. Of course, China's energy needs are partly or largely responsible for the price hike in crude and fuel oils, though currently 380cst fuel is actually $350 a ton, so where they get $600 I don't know MGO and MDO come in above $600 but that isn't bunker C.

One factor could be that if China has exclusive access and if the price is really as low as $200 a ton, the cheapest fuel on the planet, then coupled with China's low labour costs, other industrialised nations are in for a sad time paying for more expensive fuels.... as if the world's problems weren't bad enough already.

Or have I misread this? I may comment on this in the "Where is engineering going in the next five years?" forum.

Orimulsion has around 2.8% sulphur. One assumes the Chinese will fit de-sulphurisation plant or maybe orimulsion can be de-sulphurised prior to emulsifying as per the RDS plants being developed for marine fuels (current limits for marine fuels are 4.5% for global and 1.5% for Sulphur emission control areas).

JMW
 
The cited report is consistent with what we had heard from the Venezuelen minister of trade 2 yrs ago- there will no longer be any new contracts for orimulsion; the Orinoco bitumen field is expected to have a higher value if it is processed into a transportation fuel.

In addition to exporting the bitumen to China ( or processing it to a fuel oi in Venezuela and shipping that product to China) , China is also building a set of pipelines from Ft McMurray Alberta to BC , to export canadien oil ( from the Athabascan oil sands project) to China.

The largest coal to liquids project is being built in Mongolia, using a new proces that is derived from the Sasol technology, and this process is likely to be used on the Orinoco Bitumen. After the process is proven to be functional on a large scale in China, it would likely be used in north america; the developemnt costs are muchlower if the "pilot plant" is made in China.
 
What an absolute mess in New Brunswick.


athomas236
 
I feel better now. I thought our country (USA) was the only country that Hugo Chavez was crapping on.

rmw
 

0707, I may be wrong but found that converting 1.2 trillion bbl to cubic meters is

1.2x10[sup]12[/sup] bbl = 1.9x10[sup]11[/sup] m[sup]3[/sup] = 190,000,000,000 m[sup]3[/sup]

Kindly comment.
 
25362,
Your conversion looks correct.
1 oil barrel = 0.158987294928 m[sup]3[/sup]
or
1 m[sup]3[/sup] ~ 6.29 barrels

Tidbit about Hugo Chavez: Seems Venezuela's profited for years selling crude to its US subsidiary Sinclair Oil at a $5 markup above world price. But currently, to supply customers on fixed price contracts, Sinclair has to buy about 1/2 of the crude for its Houston refinery on the open market [is Venezuela oil supply maxed out?]. Chavez is PO'ed that he is "subsidizing the New York capitalists." But still fulfilling contracts although he has served notice that they won't be renewed.
 
Thanks. Pretty amazing that humanitarian Chavez wants to help the poor in London, Boston & New York!!!!!!

In Massachusetts, provided discounted home heating oil at 40 percent below market prices to thousands of low-income state residents.

No wonder Dick 'Halliburton' Cheney & henchmen hate him -- they cook up a war to raise oil co. profits, and then someone starts a price war.

Mea culpa -- Venezuela's US oil subsidiary is Citgo.
 
25362

The information from my previous posting was taken from a google search. The content of the information is not from my responsibility. Excuse me if I have confused you and thanks for the correction of the numbers


Regards

Luis
 
Venezuelan oil is real heavy crude. Citgo's refineries were not originally designed to refine heavy crude and although some of the plants have been upgraded, they still require some lighter crudes.

Now regarding Chavez's humanitarianism, have you been to Venezuela lately? Charity begins at home.

rmw

PS: I have a Venezuelan son in law. I've been there and seen how they live.......I'm not very impressed with his overtures.
 
I wasn't nominating Chavez for a Nobel Peace Prize -- but he does play the political game well.

Clausewitz's said “war is the extension of politics by other means.” The converse is that politics is the extension of warfare by other means. Winning the hearts and minds of millions is sometimes more important than inflicting a thousand battlefield casualties. Having oil resources gives Chavez political influence.
 
And cash.

rmw
 
So, just how safe is any deal with Hugo?

Orimulsion is now no more:

If I were Hugo, I wouldn't visit either New Brunswick or China in the near future but stick to visiting Ken Livingstone, London's Mayor who may be his only friend soon.
Maybe China will visit him?

But, how much does the current position depend on the present high price of oil making this a viable proposition and will it be reversed later if oil prices come down by any reasonable amount? (they are falling at the moment).

Is PDVSA, as it is currently staffed and managed, capable of achieving the necessary cost/benefits?

JMW
 
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