P.E. License Issues in Consulting 2

[TXMEEN]

I am about a year away from being eligible to take the PE exam. I have design experience and really enjoy it. I would like to do this on the side as it would not compete with my current employer.

I know that I can not claim myself as an engineer or say that I do engineering work until I pass the exam. Word on the street is you don't want to be caught doing this.

Would it be possible to offer "Design Services" for now? Is a license required to aid in the design everything?

If a PE is required, could I pay the fees of a local PE that does consulting to simply review what I have done?

Has anyone stepped out on their own in this area? I am doing a little research and it seems like finding a market would be quite challenging.

 

[JAE]

Would it be possible to offer "Design Services" for now? Is a license required to aid in the design everything?

No, you cannot practice, or offer to practice, engineering in most all (if not all) states without having a license to do so. In many states you cannot even market for services without a license.

If a PE is required, could I pay the fees of a local PE that does consulting to simply review what I have done?

Again, no. If you find a PE to do this, the PE would have to have "direct supervision" over your designs. Many states interpret that to mean the PE has control, direction, decision-making ability, and finally review over the designs. Bringing a finished design to the PE to simply seal and sign is "plan stamping" and illegal. The PE would have to do either one of these two things:
a) Have an on-going communication with you as the design progresses, where the PE can direct you in the design.
b) Take your finished design and do a complete re-calculation of the design, verifying the results indepenedently.

Doing a) is probably your best option - but you have to find a PE willing to do this - and they would certainly charge you fee for this.

Doing b) is possible, but again the PE would be required to almost spend the same time you did in creating the design in verifying it.

 

[msquared48]

Bide your time, get more experience, learn what clients want, how to give it to them, and how to deal with them in adverse cirmstances, learn how to bid jobs, learn from your boss and do not burn any bridges. Be patient. One year is a lot less time than the rest or your life.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[TXMEEN]

In the big picture, waiting one year is not much. I have been eager to do this for a while.

I could probably find a PE to consult with but my billing time would have to be less than theirs because I have no license. The cost of hiring the PE would probably cancel out any prophet that I make from my time.

I understand that designing bridges, buildings, and engines would require a PE. What about the smaller, less significant products that you see around.... A better pair of pliars, a smarter can crusher, etc.... do those require a licensed engineer too?

Thanks for the input.

 

[TXMEEN]

Without the license, are there any engineering related jobs that can be done on your own? All that I can think of is drafting.

 

[msquared48]

Nothing for a profit, legally, unless you want to invent something as you alluded to with the better can opener, etc. Anyone can do that. If you succeed with your design, get a good patent attorney.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[GregLocock]

All you have to do is work in an exempt industry. Cars, aircraft, consumer products generally. So far as any logic applies - things where prototyping is practical.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[JAE]

Ya, GregLocock hit on it. Since you are mechanical (on your handle) your talents may be more in line with industrial settings where working for an industrial company, within their walls, you can do engineering without a license.

However....be aware that if you promote yourself to them as a consultant, bringing nifty ideas to them, that is not under the industry exemption in most states as you are "holding yourself out to the public" as an engineer vs. working as an employee inside their company.

 

[Timelord]

To advertise to do "Design Services" is legal in every state as far as I am aware. You just cannot use the word "engineering or engineer" in your company name and as long as you do not hold yourself up to be a registered engineer, you can do just about any kind of engineering, including structural and civil. You just cannot stamp and seal drawings. I don't know where the other posters got the idea that you cannot practice engineering without a license, but that is not true. A license is only required if you are stamping and sealing drawings which are required in certain instances like the structural design of public buildings and bridges etc. I have been doing industrial type design work on the side for years and never once have I told the customer I was a P.E. or stamped any drawings. I did hold a license for years, but that was only so I could advertise "Engineering Services".

Timelord

 

[JAE]

Timelord, for services rendered to an industry, in many cases you are correct that you can provide various "design" services for them without any problem.

The concern is that if you advertise to the public "design" services, and those services are engineering, and you are not licensed as an engineer, then you can be, and most likely are, violating the engineering practice laws in most states.

It is NOT just the term "engineering" that always causes the violation. I could say this in an advertisement: "Design services for structural modeling and sizing of beams" and I would be in big trouble without a PE license.

Here's a part of the Nevada state board provisions:

[blue]NRS 625.520 Unlawful practice of engineering: Penalty; injunctive relief.

1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 4, it is unlawful for:

(a) Any person not properly licensed or exempted in accordance with the provisions of this chapter to:

(1) Practice, continue to practice, solicit to practice, offer to practice or attempt to practice engineering or any discipline thereof;

(2) Employ, use or cause to be used the term “licensed engineer,” “professional engineer” or “registered engineer” or any combination, variation or abbreviation thereof as a professional or commercial identification, representation, claim, asset or means of advantage or benefit;

(3) Employ, use or cause to be used the term “engineer,” “engineering” or “engineered” or any combination, variation or abbreviation thereof as a professional or commercial identification, representation, claim, asset or means of advantage or benefit without disclosing that he is not qualified, registered or licensed to practice professional engineering in this state; or

(4) Directly or indirectly employ any means which in any manner tends or is likely to mislead the public or any member thereof that any person is qualified or authorized to practice engineering.
[/blue]

A license is only required if you are stamping and sealing drawings which are required in certain instances like the structural design of public buildings and bridges etc.

Just not true. Read your local state board laws, or better, call them and ask what they think of your services. As I said above, you might be ok under some industrial exemption.

The original poster was asking about "offering design services". Best to follow the laws, and better to find out what they say before offering your services.

 

[Timelord]

JAE,

Actually, I got a legal opinion from a lawyer years ago for the state of Wisconsin (where I held my license) and that is essentially what he told me. Never had a problem and I have worked on a lot of projects over the years. Never represented myself as a PE and I did work for GM (airplane nav systems), GE (medical x-ray equipment) and several other large companies and scores of small companies. Perhaps I never got into trouble because all of the places that I worked for would have had industrial exemptions to the law anyways.
Funny, but when I got my license (1974) there was no specialization, so my license had no disipline shown on it, it was simply a general P.E. license. I was advised by the licensing board that all I had to do was restrict myself the engineering fields where I was competent, and I could determine those areas. But then I got the license only so I could use the term engineer when soliciting work, so there never was any conflict.

Timelord

 

[JAE]

Timelord,
Interesting about the legal opinion you got. However, I'd worry a bit about lawyers really knowing much about the engineering laws as it is a pretty rare thing when lawyers even get involved in engineering board related stuff. Usually it's the board jumping on an engineer, or would-be engineer, and negotiating directly with them.

I'm licensed in 20 states and get the state board newsletters of all of them which report all the violations for each quarter - it's amazing to see the number of persons who get nailed by the board for practicing without licenses, etc.

It sounds like you are in a field where engineering and niche design talents probably don't overlap to the extent that an engineering board would get involved. Most times the boards are focused on building designs vs. industrial products and processes.

 

[Timelord]

You kind of renforced the point I was trying to make to TXMEEN, That as long as he stayed out of a field that required stamping and sealing drawings and didn't represent himself as a PE, he is probably safe. I could name a half a dozen design firms here in my town that don't have PE's on staff, they do industrial type design and engineering and they advertise so without any interference from the state board.

Timelord

 

[tsgrue]

.

TXMEEN,

The easiest way to clear up your questions is to directly ask for an opinion on the matter from the engineering licensing board in your State. Part of their duties is to answer questions like yours. That way you will have a definite decision before you do anything that might get you into trouble.

Also, attorneys can render opinions, but that is only their opinion and not a board or court ruling - which is what holds and matters in licensure matters. Follow the advice of well qualified attorneys in matters of contracts and other business matters. Follow the direction of the licensing board in matters of professional practice. If you follow the advice of an attorney instead of the direction of the licensing board, you may end up following the direction of a judge and paying the attorney a lot more money.

.


tsgrue: site engineering, stormwater
management, landscape design, ecosystem
rehabilitation, mathematical simulation

http://hhwq.blogspot.com

 

[TXMEEN]

Sounds like good advice. Thanks to all who replie. I will probably give them a call some time next week to see what they think.

From the sound of it, it looks like I will just have to wait a little while until I can take the exam before venturing out to do engineering related work on my own.

 

[Ashereng]

I would talk to your state board of jurisdiction.

A designer is not an engineer.

I can design a building (meaning the interior layout) without a PE. Actually, a PE probably wouldn't help much here.

I can design a building (meaning the art work) without the PE.

I can not engineer anything, without a PE.

The word design is allowed to be used by anybody, as far as I know.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Timelord]

"I can not engineer anything, without a PE."

Maybe you can't, but the rest of the us do all the time.

The people who sent a man to the moon were not required to be licensed and I sure consider them engineers.
The people who bring you american automobiles are engineers.
The people who designed the bomb are engineers.
ETC, ETC

Timelord

 

[JAE]

Timelord,
NASA, GM, and the mad bomber are not consultants working in mechanical (HVAC) design offering services to the public.

TXMEEN's original post appeared (at least to me) to be someone looking to start up a business (that's the forum we are in here) as a mechanical engineering consultant to architects, etc.

Your statements are quite true, that designers "engineer" stuff every day. I agree 100% with you.

I just think this thread wasn't really dealing with that type of design/engineering...but I guess TXMEEN can speak for him/herself. Maybe I'm seeing through my private practice eyes and you are seeing it through your perspective.

 

[whyun]

TXMEEN,

Side work should be disclosed to your current employer and both parties ahouls agree that there are no conflicts.

Only way I can think of, for your side engineering work, is to work for a licensed engineer in your desired discipline who has overflow work, some of which you can perform under his direct supervision.

I would wait until getting the PE before venturing out.

 

[TXMEEN]

The initial post was about engineering consulting. Using my "engineering training" from my schooling to develope solutions to problems. If someone needs a device to perform a certain task, I can calculate what gears are required, what material is required, how each shold be mounted and where.... design.

Since I have a while before I can take the PE I figured I could advertise my services as design services instead of engineering services so that I could work as a consultant and then have a PE sign off on the drawings.

If I had a PE I would say I can offer Mecnanical Engineering Services.... With no PE I can not say engineering.