Pairing up wheel loader with lightweight forestry mulcher,can it work ?.

[Arkadija]

Hello everyone,i hope i am not doing anything against rules asking for a help here.Friend of mine have some loader that plans to equip with forestry mulcher,hydraulics is not my profession and it would mean allot if someone can help me out with this.
So uhm,i guess i need to start with numbers ,loader is not large one ,but there is smaller ones,he is 15 ton weight,have 3 hydraulics pumps,but important one is main pump ,which is gear type ,260 liter per minute max flow ,at 140-160 bar pressure,210 liter oil reservoir ,but have no oil coolant.What he is planning to do ,is buy some used tractor pto powered forestry mulcher ,add hydraulic motor to it and connect it with loader.Question is,in order to know what size of mulcher to buy ,he need to knows what size of hydraulic motor he can use for that pump.I did some research on net ofc,there is several types of motors,like gear ones ,piston radial,piston axial ....apparently motor with highest torque is piston radial type ,but still he is not sure how to pair them up.Since motor would be connected on mulcher pto connection,it should spin +- 500rpm.Forgot to mention,at the front of the loader,where bucket is ,there is 2 quick connections for hydraulic ,it can operate 1 double acting cylinder.
Some piston radil motor he found for sale ,he knows it's 150cm3,max rpm 500.

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...ff-0d01-4279-9cc7-c09a86f7a931&file=150cc.png

Loader hydraulic gear pump is 133cm3 if i remember,it's this type from this bellow pdf file >3115.407.74M

https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=214d23bc-54b3-4310-8142-bd4407c4a47e&file=GP2.pdf

 

[hydtools]

150cc motor turning 500rpm needs 75lpm flow. Is that available from the loader? At what pressure?

Ted

 

[Arkadija]

Hello there ,thanks for helping me out.
Loader main hydraulic gear pump have at max 260 liter per minute flow at 140 -160 bar pressure,i think pump displacement is 133 cubic centimeters.It have 210 liter oil reservoir with no cooling ,which he plans to add if he somehow manage to make it work with mulcher.
Loader have at the front where bucket is attached 2 metal pipes with quick connections for hydraulics ,it can power double action cylinders.I can send picture of this tomorrow.

 

[LittleInch]

The thing no one is mentioning here is power.

You need to know rotational speed and torque needed to make the mulcher work. I couldn't see torque figures anywhere on that motor data sheet.

Also not sure what the main pump is being used for but at 260l/min and only a 210 l reservoir your oil is going to get mighty hot I think quite quickly.



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[hydtools]

So far we know 69 kW pump capacity.
He may be adding a cooler/heat exchanger.
Mulcher turns around 500 rpm. Don't know power or torque demand.

Ted

 

[LittleInch]

OK, so that motor can provide about 20kW at 500 rpm so probably good enough for a "mulcher", but he needs to find out.

A quick perusal for mulcher PTO driven shows some small ones are within this range, but many are a lot bigger.

A tractor PTO can be quite powerful compared to this hydraulic motor.

The connections on the bucket are very unlikely to be able to be used for a such a device. They tend to be for extra cylinder things like chopping action or moving forks apart, not powering a pump continuously.



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[Arkadija]

Hello ,i just come from town,my friend found some oil coolers from excavators at some company that are disassembling them and sells parts,he didn't buy nothing yet ofc,just checking for parts ,prices etc.
Umm,well that's the problem,he don't know what size mulcher to see for buying until he knows what is largest hydraulic motor that loader pump can drive.So 69-70kw pump capacity ,can that be just the same on hydro motor ?.
Those lightweight mulchers about 2-2.5 meter width use more or less 70-90hp,tractor powered ,over pto,yes around 500 pto rpm.But rotor of mulchers are operating at 1500-2000 rpm ,more or less.

@LittleInch
What do you think about connections ?,not enough flow or ?.Maybe he could somehow override distributor and directly to power hydro motor from pump.
If that motor on picture i posted is only 20kw ,then it's not enough power ,i guess ?,i just post it as what he did find first for sell,we can search for large ones np.

 

[LittleInch]

You need to figure out where the hydraulic pipes go from your fairly big hydraulic pump via some sort of flow controller or switch.

Any connectors I normally see on the front are for other things which are controlled from buttons on the joystick, but your loader might be different.

You really need to find the hydraulic diagram for the machine.

The 69kw ( ~90hp) is the hydraulic power for the full flow at the full pressure of the pump.

If the pump is as rusty as the bucket then it might be rather lower by now... Plus you will lose power through the motor and into the shaft so maybe aim for the 60-70hp mulcher versions and then find a motor which will give you 540rpm at a max flow of say 250l/min at 150 bar and then you're maxed out.

You might need some big hoses as well so as not to lose pressure across the hoses and their connectors.

Or get your friend to buy a tractor with a 70hp PTO drive on it instead....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Arkadija]

Pump is almost new,loader is mechanical one,only electric that he have is working lights,generator and starter ,but i will see with friend about flow controller,he have spare parts catalogue for machine and operating manual.
We both are farmers we have tractors all sizes,but they can't do the job,we have some high bushes to cut,nothing thick,maybe max 2 inches at ground level,even less ,usually just 1 inch thick ,and anything above is just thin branches ,very intertwined to say ,u cut it at ground level,with tractor as example,it just keep on standing ,it's up to 5+ meters height those bushes ,tractor can make tunnels trough them easily.Thats why only way to mulch those bushes is in layers,up first,then middle,then lower section,and that can be done with excavator equoped with mulcher, or in our case ,loader.Companies that are doing this job ask for +- 1000 euro per hectare,i even called few more numbers today,they are all more or less at same price level.For the price we would pay some company to do this job for us ,we could easily buy mulcher,hydro motor,oil coolant ,and few other stuff that is needed to equip this loader to do job for us.Plus,we later have working tractor mulcher(when we remove hydro motor) that can be pto driven,which we would have allot of use on our farm fields.
But thanks for help really,we now know some numbers thanks to you.
Uhm,what type of hydraulic motor should we look for ?,we do need low rpm of it 450-550,so should we aim for high torque piston radial(if its that one) ?,or any type,axial,gear one ?.

 

[hydtools]

Is this similar to what you are trying to do? They use a bent axis piston motor.

https://www.durattach.com/72-baumalight-skid-steer-brush-mulcher-model-ims772.html

Ted

 

[Arkadija]

Yea that looks like those axial piston motors ,problem is only that mulcher is heavy type ,this on pictures bellow is rotor of ''mulcher'' we would need to buy anyway for our farms,he requires much less power to operate.