PE Stamping Cost 4

[koo]

guys, got a pricing question about additional charge if I am asked to stamp the calculation and drawings for connection design.

I didn't stamp them before and only submit calcs. for others to stamping (EOR). Now they want me to stamp it. What price diff. does it make on an hourly rate basis? (I know I should cover insurance and add'l hours...but is there a typical industry rate diff. btw. stamping vs. non-stamping?)

Please be specific if you can...thanks.

Koo

 

[msquared48]

Anything that goes out of my office with my logo and letterhead on it is stamped...no exceptions. The "charge" for stamping the project is nonexistant and really irrelevant.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[DRC1]

I have had calculations that I have done and have come back requesting a stamp. I can understand a resaonable charge to stamp, I mean you probably want to give the papers the once over just to be sure everything is in order, copies had to be made and it consumes some time. (often more time than if they would have asked for it th first time) Your liability does increase if you stamp something, thats the purpose of stamping, to identify the party who said "yes this was done correctly"
On the other hand, I have told people that I could not stamp the calculations, as they were part of the overall design, and the EOR of the overall design should stamp the design to ensure conformance to the overall design concept. Generally the reason I did not stamp it was because of that. I have seen engineers who try toget everybody to stamp their piece and then bind it all up. Often they have very little that they have their stamp on. If there is a problem, then you end up with a lot of finger pointing, that stamping was to avoid.
I agree we should have one standard for our work, but a stamp should be sure that the work is compatible with the total design concept.

 

[hokie66]

Stamping calculations is a ridiculous requirement and I would refuse to do so. My stamp would not fit on my matchbook. A letter of certification stating that the design has been done in accordance with the relevant standards should suffice, along with the contract documents with the appropriate stamping and signatures.

 

[UcfSE]

Calculations that require sealing take longer to prepare and longer to organize and reproduce. It's reasonable to charge more for this since you wouldn't turn in your matchbook or photo copies of a napkin. Likewise, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge more to stamp work when you've been getting paid not to stamp it. Your work is changing; charge for it.

In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary to turn in sealed calculations, but then again, in an ideal world we shouldn't have to have licenses. We could take people at their word that they are competent. Obviously that isn't the case.

 

[msquared48]

Doesn't work that way over here Hokie. They don't trust us anymore. Remember the Hyiatt Regency walkway failure back in the 80's? Everything changed liability-wise after that. We stamp the calcs and plans, sometimes even the shop drawings.

A further thought, the issue here appears to be the stamp, assuming more liability with it, and being paid more for it. The real liability here is any monetary compensation paid by the client and his reliance on your professional work, stamped or unstamped.

Personally, I like the idea of wet stamping prints and calculations, as it quickly weeds out stamp forgeries, which has happened to me personally three times in the last 20 years.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[hokie66]

I don't know why I got into this conversation. My Virginia stamp has dry-rotted, and we don't have stamps in Australia. I sympathise, but don't think a stamp would have prevented the Hyatt collapse.

 

[TXStructural]

"I didn't stamp them before and only submit calcs. for others to stamping (EOR). Now they want me to stamp it."

Since Texas prohibits stamping work which was not done by you or under your supervision, you stamp your own work.

Also, as said previously, Texas also requires that work be stamped if it is engineering.

I have also had numerous discussions online and IRL about engineers not pricing for the value they provide. If we "discount" our fees for not stamping, then people see the value of our knowledge, skills & experience as less than the value of our seals.

Charge what you are worth, all the time, and stand behind it, seal or not.

 

[rday]

I'm with TXStructural. The fee I charge is NOT for the seal, it is for the expertise that the seal represents.

I do the same calc package reagardless of submittal requirements. Often times I am required to submit the package sealed. No problem here it is. Maybe my take is a little different having a boss who does review for the State Board.

 

[connect2]

Sealed or unsealed, charge more or less, that's a bit bizzare. Here you're liable in Tort regardless, same cost for work, same cost in court.

 

[msquared48]

Bingo!

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Double Bingo

 

[nutte]

Back to the original post, are they asking you to stamp the shop drawings, certifying the drawings themselves are detailed correctly, matching your connection design?

If the answer is "Yes," then that is an additional service, "shop drawing review," and you should be compensated accordingly. It is one thing to provide a design. It is an entirely different task to review someone else's work and verify their interpretation is correct.

(This begs another question, should engineers of record require sealed connection design, or sealed shop drawings, or both. That discussion would likely drag on longer than this one has.)

If you're doing connection design, and submitting calculations, I don't see much difference price-wise or effort-wise if you seal them or not.

 

[connect2]

As EOR you'll be the first named in litagation, sealed or unsealed, payed or not payed, designed by others or aliens. Here EOR has total responsibility. Hard to duck at the end of the day even the biggest disclaimer is just a bunch of words and the dominion of lawyers.