Power quality analysers 1

[emmjea001]

Hi All,

I was hoping to get some user experience on power analysers, I have been looking at the Fluke 1735 unit and the more expensive Elspec G4500.

Would appreciate any comments if anyone used either of these?

Thanks

 

[LionelHutz]

Make sure you evaluate whichever meter you pick it and ensure you can get the data you want out of a recording. In the past, I used a RPM logger which was supposed to be a great logger but it was a royal pain to find good data in a PQ recording (there were 1000's of events and most were meaningless) and all I could really get out of it was waveform captures of the event. RPM was purchased by Fluke quite some time ago and the new version of that logger is now a 1750. Fluke still has a number of meters where you they expect you to take basically screen snapshots to record data, so check what that 1735 gives you as output data when you capture what you're looking at.

The Elspec appears to be a meter that would record a ton of data if you are looking for that. It sounds like instead of triggering on a system change it just records continually with that listed 1024 samples per cycle for up to a year. That could be a good thing or it could just overwhelm you with excess pointless data.

I've used a AEMC Powerpad 8336 a few times lately and I thought it was a good meter that was easy to use. I can say it works great to check the present state of equipment to get a recording of the present power conditions. A snapshot of the recorder data gives the currents & voltage data showing waveforms, RMS levels, harmonic spectrum and individual harmonic data plus the power data on each phase. I never really did any logging though so I can't say how well the logging and transient capturing works.

 

[ScottyUK]

Voltech's PM3000 is a first class analyser, as is the newer PM6000. Yokogawa have a range which in times past I was less than impressed with but they have a few new models which on paper are worth a look. Tektronix have one out which I haven't used but if it is as good as their scopes then it will be worth investigating. personally I dislike the Fluke although I can see the benefit of a relatively compact battery-operated device. Unless the Tek analyser is truly stellar in capability then one of the Voltechs will get my money.

 

[emmjea001]

Thanks Guys

As a matter of interest I looked up voltech and it looks like it has been taken over by Tekronix!

Can I ask why you dislike the fluke Scotty? it seems to offer quite a lot with not a bad price tag?

Appreciate the feedback

 

[ScottyUK]

Dislike was perhaps a bit too strong a word.

I'm not hugely keen on the user interface, but I'm a grumpy old sod who likes old-fashioned buttons and knobs. More importantly for me it doesn't adapt well to external CTs which is a absolute pain in the butt when all you have are CTs on the machine and no prospect of using the Fluke probes on the secondaries. The probes use some goofy custom connector instead of a pair of 4mm jacks, probably in the name of safety, or in the name of preventing use of industry-standard probes in order to maximise profit...

On the positives, it's a fifth of the size and weight of the bench instruments, reasonably rugged and arguably better suited to a field testing environment, and it is cheaper than the big bench instruments.

In my opinion the bench instruments are more capable overall, but you pay a premium in both cost and portability. That's a decision weighted by what you'll use it for.

I must say I love my Fluke multimeter and have used little else in 25 years, but since they merged with Philips in the 90's and started dabbling in scopes I've not liked any of their Scopemeter products. I would pick my late 1990's Tek THS730 over anything Fluke make today. If you like the Scopemeter interface then you might like the analyser: best bet is to get one on loan for evaluation and see how you get along with it.

 

[Pafi]

I have Elspec 4500. If you look for something to take easy and fast measurements on the field, don't buy it. If you want a meter for troubleshooting difficult problems or you need data for long time in order to do post processing, it is very good. Post processing takes long time, you need to make a download of data and use a different program for analysis. You need a laptop to make the setting of the instrument and measurements on the field (don't have a display of it's own!)

 

[MAZ13]

Hi,
Dear emmjea001,
I have worked with HIOKI power quality analyzers. It has 2 most famous models: HIOKI 3196 and HIOKI 3198.. I'm very satisfy with these equipment and if you specify your application, I'll tell you more about these.
First of all, you should make it clear that you are looking for a fix equipment of a portable one.
Regards

 

[emmjea001]

Thanks Pafi and MAZ13 - some good feedback and valid points about no on instrument display.

I have only ever really done load profile surveys, and some harmonic analysis, but that's all I could do as I only ever had a VIP System 3 from Elecontrol. Now I am looking to replace it, I want to get the best value for my money I can.

What I always missed with the VIP System 3 was I had no ability to see waveform or assess power quality and see any system disturbances, I was probably drawn to the fact the Elspec can just capture raw data and therefore "sees" everything - but the fact is I probably won't use any of that 98% of the time

 

[ScottyUK]

I think we have all overlooked Dranetz.

http://www.dranetz.com/

Long time since I used one of their instruments, but once upon a time they were very good - perhaps the best at certain things. I'd be interested in any feedback on their present-day range.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

I used a Dranetz analyzer for a harmonic study awhile back. I thought the software for it was solid and easy to use. I don't have any experience with anything else but I was able to do what I needed to with it.

 

[emmjea001]

MAZ13, sorry I did not add, this needs to be a portable analyser. I see the Hioki 3196 has been discontinued.

I was hoping to find something decent in the 3000 USD range, but it seems most models I have been referred to are 7k plus...

I have also seen a Vega 78 unit

http://www.ht-instruments.com/en/products-ht/power_quality_analyzers/vega78

which is pretty reasonably priced, but don't know anyone with operational experiecne on it.

It turns out this is a hard subject to get a consensus on! But thanks for all the feedback so far.

 

[Pafi]

I think that first you have to check if it is a class A instrument(there is a measurement standard, don't remember the name). I have an older HT analyser and it was very reliable, I still use it today but meanwhile this standard appeared and class A instruments should be manufactured according to it.

 

[catserveng]

I think your "lack of consensus" is due to the fact this is a pretty broad subject. Later in the thread you finally stated what you're trying to do with the analyzer, but it still isn't clear exactly what you need. So probably a good answer to you initial question is "it depends".

What voltage and current levels are you trying to measure?

Are you trying to do logging/recording, like for power and demand studies?

Do you want to use the instrument for troubleshooting and service type work?

What kind of interface and/or reporting software are you looking for?

I am a small service type company, I own three different power quality type instruments,

A Fluke 1735, with flex CT's for up to 3000 amps and CT's rated at 10 amps for measuring CT secondary circuits, it does a nice job doing 7 and 30 day power studies, has some harmonic recording features and a fairly easy to use reporting software for rather simple reports. I don't think its on board display is very good, but when used with its software it does what I ask of it.

If I'm troubleshooting in the field I carry around a Fluke 435, has an assortment of CT's, has served me well on both low and medium voltage systems with the accessories I have. The recording is poor to fair, it takes FOREVER to download, and the software is a bit clunky, but I rarely use it for recording so it is ok for me. It has been rugged and reliable to date.

For more complex jobs I own a Fluke 1750, a testing company I used to work with had a lot of these and I had templates for reporting already made up. In most cases it does fine. I personally hate the PDA interface, think its a real piece of junk, and only use the PC via Ethernet cable. I like many of it features but on some parameters it does an averaging instead of the resolution I need for some current jobs.

I have rented a Dranetz HDPQ Visa unit many times in the last year, I test mainly generators with it and it meets my needs in several areas, so I am currently looking at replacing my Fluke 1735 and 435 with the Dranetz platform.

I have a customer who has both Elspec stationary and portable power analyzers, we had a number of installation issues with the stationary units that were the result of some poor documentation. The portable unit does measure EVERYTHING, but took a long time to drill down to the data needed. Of all the manufacturers I have dealt with on Power Quality equipment, I had the hardest time with these guys, for me it was a constant sales job and I needed technical help, so my view of them tends to be negative.

Another customer had a Hioki 3 phase unit, sorry I don't remember to model, that seemed to do a pretty good job but failed within a year, not sure of the cause, just pulled it out of the case and it didn't power up, even after charging the batteries.

I think where you are in the world has an impact on your choices, can you get it serviced/repaired/calibrated when needed. What if you want to add additional accessories, like current probes? Are they available and reasonably priced. How is the software? How about technical resources to help you use the instrument effectively, like online tutorials, good manuals, even YouTube videos?

LinkedIn has a couple of power quality specific groups that I have found helpful, I also work with a company in California that specializes in Power Quality and have rented equipment and taken training from them, so maybe that is an option for you as well?

Hope that helps, MikeL.

 

[emmjea001]

Mike L, thanks great info, and good questions, will re-read and take that in, many thanks to you and everyone else for your input