Practising Engineering in USA States 17

[stanier]

Has the requirement for bieng licensed in a state ever been challenged as being in restraint of free trade?

Does the free trade agreements with Canada, mexico, Australia allow for engineers considered professional in their homelands to work without registration in the state?

I am a consultant working out of Sydney Australia and undertake work all over the world except as yet in the USA. I am primarily engaged by consultants as a sub consultant. Is it possible for me to work on USA projects? It would be a nonsense if I did my work but some other engineer had to sign off on it because he had a license and I didnt. The only relelvance that engineer may have to my speciality is knowing my email address and phone number.

 

[JoeTank]

alcap,

Have you identified any states that would issue a PE to a PEng on the basis of comity? Thanks.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[Ashereng]

alcap,

Can you clarify who is completely wrong?

Secondly, I would also be interested too in knowing the name of the state that issues a PE to a P.Eng on the basis of comity? To my knowledge, only Texas used to, and I have been told by a posting above that that has since ended.

Thanks,

 

[imagitec]

The NCEES records program is about the closest thing to uniform licensure in the US. Check it out if you think you'd be interested in becoming licensed in multiple states:

http://www.ncees.org/records/establishing_a_record/

Most states will allow you to practice within their borders for a brief period of time each year, on the basis of another state's license. The rules in each state are differnt, however. This is the place to start learning about them:

http://ppi2pass.com/ppi/PPIInfo_pg_allboards.html

Rob Campbell, PE
Finite Monkeys -

http://www.livejournal.com/users/robcampbell

 

[planedr]

This is great! Best most amusing thread I have ever read.

Context for me I am a Canadian EIT. All is said and done basically just waiting for my papers to finalise my PEng. I reside in Texas working on a NAFTA TN visa. I went for my PEng via route 2 mentioned above. It was because Canada does not have any form of basic Degree other than BS (acronym for a reason). I have 3 years of specialized college courses and I wrote 12 3 hour academic exams, not multiple choice, I would not waste my time with the PE/FE exams. My Professional Practice exam was not take home, apparently unlike Manitoba. I also work under industry exemptions in Canada and the US.

Anyway while I was writing my Professional Practice exam at the Texas Board office, I inquired about comity. Even with my Canadian PEng I will not be allowed to write the PE/FE exam in Texas because I do not have a BS. Now that's BS period.

I was writing at the Texas Board since there was no PE that I could find willing to invigilate. No one gets one because they don't need it. There's enhanced Professionalism if I have ever seen it.

As I said in my other post. I feel the system is a mess on both sides, and this does not enhance public safety in any way. Nor does it advance our Profession. I have always supported licensure for everyone practicing Engineering or Technology. Yet I continually see petty squabling about why "this system or license" is better.

If I can prove my background in an equivalent jurisdiction and am cognizent of code or design requirements locally, note not acedemic but code(!), then why is your PE better than mine?

That's all from me.

Thanks for the venue.

 

[JoeTank]

planedr,
I haven't read all of the numerous posts here, but I don't think anyone claimed the PE was better than a PEng. The systems are just different, so the comity issue is not resolved. As far as the requirement for a BS, that's pretty uniform among most if not all of the PE Boards. I'm not very familiar with the Canadian engineering education system, but is it possible to obtain a PEng without having first obtained a BS?

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[Ashereng]

Yes Steve, it is possible. There are 2 ways to get a PEng/ing in Canada:

The traditional way:
- graduate from an accredited university with a BACHELOR's degree in engineering (it HAS to be a bachelors, a masters or phd doesn't count)
- work the required number of years to get experience (I believe it is now 4 years)
- write and pass the "law and ethics" (some people call it the "professional practice exam")

The second way is for people who do not meet the above way.
- write and pass all the technical exams for your discipline.

I know of foreign educated engineers, as well as non engineering undergrad degree people (they have a masters in engineering, but undergrad in something else, like applied math), who have written and passed these exams. They are not hard, but are challenging.

 

[planedr]

The exams were nasty but I am a far better Engineer than a BS Grad who hasn't opened a book since the day he walked out the door of the Hallowed halls. For what I do I was probably better than a BS grad, better than any i have had to train to date anyway. That is because I had a specialized course in what I do. No I would not go to University to save myself the trouble of the exams. It did not then nor would it now get me the education I wanted. Unfortunately the course I took was discontinued after 60+ years, so today I don't know what I'd do.

I always felt that to get a PE anywhere in North America it would be respected by other jurisdictions. Over the years of my career I am seeing, cynical it may be, that the Societies are more interested in protecting their turf or their club than in advancing Engineering. I saw that between the Engineering and Technologist Societies in Canada, and I see it among the various State bodies.

To me it is a shame that no one gets a PE unless it is necesary, and that the Societies don't seem to care about leveling the field amongst themselves. It seems a shame that no one, okay very few, has a PE in the US. Not that I blame them given the lack of transportability. There is no common voice to us as a group and there is no enhancement of the Profession. Granted the Canucks can be a little overboard, especially in some Provinces. It just seems to be a disservice to the profession is all.

 

[JoeTank]

palnedr,
To what Societies are you referring in your last post? NSPE is the only society for PEs in the US. Also, there are a bunch of PEs out there, not just a few. Regarding transportability of the PE, I have been able to obtain a PE in any state to which I applied on the basis of comity. NCEES works hard at this issue. Perhaps I misunderstood your last post?

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[planedr]

Steve,
Terminology hang up here sorry. I mean "Society" as the official licensing group. In Canada it is the "Association" in the US I guess it is the "Board".

I work in Aerospace, in Canada a very large number of Engineers in Aerospace carry a PEng all for various reasons. In the Aerospace in the US I have met 1 PE that was not military. I know a huge number of FAA DER, AR's not 1 I know carries a PE. They all have Degrees and all from "good" Universities. The people in Canada I know with exception of 3 or 4 in Canada all carry PEng.

My perspective may be narrow, by no means have I been exposed to the entire industry. But I just do not see the visibility of the PE here. Several gents I know outside Aerospace have not bothered with their PE because there is no need or no benefit.

Obviously in your particular speciality a PE is necesary. I see your company lists 7 PE's one is an SE as well. There are 35 "Engineers" in the company I work at, 10 of them, not counting me cause I'm not right, are eligible for a PE with out me even asking any of the rest. I'm the only who will have one, and Texas won't recognize it.

It's just relative. Based on your experience Steve everyone, or the majority, has a PE and comity is not an issue. My experience has been different.

I would just like to see better transportability for everyone amongst all jurisdictions. I would also like to see more people licensed, I feel it improves us as a Profession and allows for input back up the Legaslative chain.

Al CET, EIT

 

[JoeTank]

planedr,
Thanks for additional comments. Here in US, most consulting engineers have a PE as it's required if one offers services to public. Prior to entering private practice I was employed by a steel tank fabrication firm. Perhaps only about about 20% of the engineers on staff were licensed, but that was back in 1970s thru mid 1980s. Today I think it would be much higher.
Regarding Societies (or whatever we call them) working together for some cosmic good of us engineers, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to get all cozy with each other. I doubt that the PE Board in Virginia will work very hard to establish comity with Canadian Associations as there is hardly a ground swell of need for that to happen. And vice-versa. Afterall, the Societies are us and if we aren't pushing for it who will? Don't expect a bureaucrat to do anything original.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[MrMojito]

Most engineers in the USA are not consultants and therefore aren't required to have a PE. And, many of the PEs in the USA have licenses only as a credential. From a purely legal perspective, probable only 10% of USA engineers need to be licensed, rather than the 22% who are.

 

[JoeTank]

MrMojito,
Unfortunately you are probably right about the low % of US engineers that are PE. I wish it was higher. Those that have consider it far more than just a credential.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[stanier]

SteveBraune,

When you say offer services to the "public" do you mean the punter in the street or offer services publicly to any thrid party? Thus if you operate a consultancy to a registered company or corporation you wouldnt need to be a PE?

 

[RDK]

Offering services to the public generally means any entity at arm’s length. Thus if you are selling engineering services to any party in any manner other than an employer/employee relationship then you are selling engineering services to the public,.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[JoeTank]

Mr Kitson said it best.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[JTMcC]

It strikes me as odd that a couple of individuals that hold such a dim view of all things American, would be so incredibly
determined to do business with us.

Americans haven't yet, and probably (hopefully) never will allow other nations to define it.



JTMcC.

http://www.firstratefabricators.com