Prelim Design fees? 1

[radiocontrolhead]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this but can services be rendered for a preliminary set of plans say up to DD level instead of up to CD level?

I can't seem to find any information on something like this, but my client wants to get a rough idea of what DD level structural plans would look like and cost (for construction and engineering fees wise). Is that ethically acceptable or must engineer-owner contracts conclude with sealed and signed drawings and calculations?

Thank you all for your time.

 

[H57]

I'm not aware of anything legally that would restrict you from providing a DD or preliminary design. There are a variety of reasons why an owner would want to do this and I'm sure there are some unethical reasons as well.

1) We have provided partial design sets for owners as part of a design-build solicitation package. The selected contractor is responsible for the final design of the project.
2) Sometimes partial sets are used for establishing a GMP with the contractor. After full funding of the project the remainder of the design is completed.

If the owner is intending to build directly from a partial set, that would be a problem.

My recommendation would be talk to the owner so that you know what their plan is and who will complete the design. This will give you a better picture to make a decision as to whether you want to be involved.

 

[KootK]

- I've done this, for the reason s H57 mentioned.

- Ethically, in my jurisdiction, I believe that we are supposed to stamp such drawings as they express an engineering opinion put forth by a licensed engineer.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[canwesteng]

This is done all the time for EPCM jobs. Make sure all drawings have a preliminary/not for construction stamp.

 

[BUGGAR]

This is sort of like design-build, where the documents are suitable for a full feasibilty study, and also suitable to turn over to another firm to complete design and construction. A well defined scope of your work is everything. You could look up recommended scopes for design build documents.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I recall reading that some jurisdictions require you to stamp any deliverables, even preliminary drawings, but there's nothing wrong or unethical with submitting drawings marked "preliminary, not for construction" as a deliverable if that's what the client needs at that time. Where it gets very sketchy is when the contractor (or client) asks people to build off of them. For precast I regularly was asked to design precast elements for fabrication based on "preliminary, not for construction" drawings. Sometimes I pushed back as I knew it would cause issues but often times I would just roll with it for minor details.

So, be very aware that your drawings can and likely will be used for minor construction and make sure that you both protect yourself and protect the success of the project by confirming exactly what you're providing and what it will be used for.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL, CO) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[BAretired]

I wasn't sure of the meaning of DD and CD, so I looked it up and found:

SD = schematic design - rough sketches and meetings with client to determine scope, preliminary investigation to determine any local code issues such as zoning, setbacks, etc that will affect design

DD = design development - this phase covers engineering design, and may have partially completed sets issued at benchmarks such as 50% or 75% complete for review by client and architect, progress meetings for the design team, coordination by architect between trades

CD = construction documents - these are the final documents issued at 100% complete.


CD - Concept Design (early stage)
SD - Schematic Design ( mid stage)
DD - Detailed Design (final stage)

These are agreed stages to help measure progress of design and often linked milestone payments.

The following are also common terms in relation to Design drawings.

IFC - Issued for Construction

SHD - Shop Drawings

SD - usually shows general equipment layouts, major piping/duct runs/branches
DD - elobarates what was shown in SD plus some more detail as to layout/details/ notes etc.
CD - final construction drawings - all notes shown piping runs and drops to fixtures or placement of air terminals etc.

DD - Design Drawings - Also called as ID Drawings (For Interiors) / Architectural Drawings (For Architecture) or IFT Drawings (Issued for Tender) - Generally in construction projects designer will design and provides to employer in order to Float tenders. Contractors will quote the projects based on these Drawings.

CD - Construction Drawings - In the mean time, designer will start his workings on ID and develop the construction details (Not necessary, every designer will not provide the Construction Drawings) . This is also called as IFC (Issued for Construction)

SD - Shop Drawing - These are...

It could mean conceptual design, detailed design and standard design or something like that. Each organization has a mixture of definitions for levels of design drawings and chances are even those working within the same organizations use slight different standards to decide what is included in the drawings at each stage. So best bet is to look for examples from previous similar project and review the types of information included to understand what is expected.

DD would be Design Drawing and CD would be Construction Drawing I'm not sure with the SD though maybe Schematic Drawing?

CD - Concept Design (early stage)
SD - Schematic Design ( mid stage)
DD - Detailed Design (final stage)

Several interpretations...I hate acronyms.

BA

 

[AaronMcD]

^
The first red one is the only one I've heard.
Schematic, design development, construction documents.

Then there is CA - construction administration.

http://www.hellodwell.design

 

[Earth314159]

We do this all the time. It gives the client the idea of what they are getting themselves in for. It is a reasonable and valuable service to provide. In these cases, we usually design to 25%. Where, I am from, the drawings do not need to be sealed. It has to be understood by all parties that these are not construction drawings. You can mark "Preliminary" on the drawings and/or "Not for construction".

 

[XR250]

I believe in my state the drawings either need to be sealed or marked "preliminary not for construction" or "not a certified document"