Print Archive vs All-Digital Archive 4

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

Hello everyone,

Quick question. What do you all think of having a business’s projects archive as printing and digital backups versus no printing and digital backup only?

If I was getting a business set up and you were going to work there using your stamp to stamp drawings, would you prefer there be an employee that prints out the submittals and files it away somewhere or would you think that was overkill and want it to be digital only?

Pros and cons of digital only is that it’s easier and cheaper than doing both BUT if an IT guy gets disgruntled he can delete your server and walk out and you lose everything. Pros and cons of doing both are that you’re far less likely to lose everything but it is more labor/expense.

Thoughts? How is your company handling this?

 

[CWB1]

Digitial vs paper is easy, nobody uses paper anymore. Welcome to Y2k.

Unless you're challenging your own data's authenticity then I wouldn't worry over it. Regulators cannot challenge it after acceptance without looking extremely foolish.

Cloud backup for engineering is generally avoided for IP protection purposes. Most companies today set up MS365 and other cloud-based software to protect and save data locally on their own servers bc you lose legal protections sharing it on Google, MS, etc.

 

[jari001]

Server systems can be setup to prevent any one person from having full reign and wiping drives willy - nilly, so I think you don't have to worry about that. Having off site backup performed regularly (normally automatically) mitigates the damage of someone putting an axe through the server racks. The cloud vs non-cloud option is up to you and the lawyers I think. Your server room itself will have some security measures as well (e.g. cameras, locks,) with a gaseous fire suppression system if you want to get fancy =)

 

[Sparweb]

Regulators cannot challenge it after acceptance without looking extremely foolish.

Oh, I must hold my tongue, now.

 

[dik]

Without being political, I think regulators are born, and trained to be foolish.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Just added another item to my toolkit (discovered it this AM). I have a new project where they are using CFS purling and attaching to them. Looking up TEKS stuff, taking a Windows 'snapshot' of it and sending myself an eMail with the product data. This then goes into the project file as part of the notes. Example of clip sent by eMail, below:

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LionelHutz]

Versioning control software as part of the storage, where there is a single file you select and it allows access to all the revisions, is rather handy. Once set up, it tracks all the changes, who did what and when, doesn't allow accidental erases or moves and more. Once you've used it the advantages become clear.

 

[FreddyNurk]

Agree wholeheartedly with LionelHutz, only caveat is that once you're used to such a system having to go back to folders and renaming files can be frustrating.

My goto for single person projects is Fossil, it can manage a folder structure, as well as provide file changes, comments and a wiki. The command line interface can be a challenge for some things though.

EDMS Australia

 

[dik]

It would be nice to have versioning software, but my storage just retains the latest copy. Even with drafts... for a legal matter I may have six drafts, each one recorded. Before it is published, I delete previous drafts... for legal reasons; they are not recoverable. For any of my photos, with my last employer IT department made it a habit of reducing all photos to a smaller size. I always retained all my original photos, including out of focus or poorly exposed, on my own hardware. Part of my report stipulated that all photos were retained in their original state are available (by court order if necessary). Other than for programming, I've not found it necessary to keep earlier versions.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LionelHutz]

The legal reason being that it can't be used in discovery against you which then potentially reduces your lawyers bill?

 

[dik]

Yup... drafts are 'gone'...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LionelHutz]

Versioning control can still be handy for single files in a multi-person organization. You get the control over who could change it, the possibility to enter some extra data about it, track access etc. The entered data about a file sure helps search CAD drawings. Once you've had it, going back is painful.

 

[KevinNZ]

Regarding Versioning control

We are a bit old fashion, every drawing is still printed and signed (by up to six staff) with red pen. We then keep the hard copy. We also add the signature to the CAD file and keep a CAD file version of each drawing revision.

It would be nice to stop signing the hard copy but have not found nice way to sign the CAD files.

 

[dik]

I haven't printed a drawing in decades... my late wife used to complain about my D sized plotter in the livingroom, so I had to move it downstairs, and I haven't printed on it since. That was 3 years back... I apply my seal and signature directly to my cad files.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[skeletron]

@KevinNZ: that sounds like an enormous amount of work to authenticate (although, we are likely coming from different practice areas and regions). How/When is the electronic document actually locked and then signed & locked? Or is this done simultaneously by each party?

 

[3DDave]

The release cycle that would work is to send out preliminary prints/files for review. Indicate approval. Incorporate the signatures on the electronic version and lock it. Print that with the electronic signatures and hand sign and vault that. Downside - they don't check to see if the electronic version matches what they reviewed, but at least there are no required changes to the electronic version after they physically signed the print. If they don't like that version the electronic version is deleted, changes made, and the review repeats.

I've seen too many times where drawings got reviewed, everyone says "Great!", the drawings go back to drafting to have the signature or revision blocks updated and the drafter makes an environmental change, that alters the view status, and is so excited, just creates the output files and they get put into the vaulting system and released. It's lazy on their part to not force the views from "Follow Environment" to "Remove Hidden Lines" but they do so anyway, and it's more likely when there is some major production issue that needs the changed drawing NOW NOW NOW!

What I have not seen is a system that embeds the capability to examine differences. I used to do this on PDF format files via Photoshop. Start with a black layer, import the old version to an overlay layer and use a layer filter to change it to 100% red 50% transparent and then the new version to a new layer with a layer filter of 100% green 50% transparent.

All the matching items are baby-puke yellow, the solely new items, green, and the solely old items red. Selecting by color can find even a single pixel difference.

Using Photoshop, if a drafter has moved a view or detail then the reviewer can shift the matching feature to see that they do or do not actually match - a feature most drawing compare software cannot handle. Likewise if a view or detail is moved to a different sheet of the drawing.

With practice even a jam-packed J-size drawing sheet can be checked for changes in under a minute, assuming the drafter didn't get too crazy with nudging items around.

 

[dik]

The company I worked for, about 10 years) had a fairly 'strict' drawing and layer standard. It was different than mine. If I had to do any significant drawings, I would turn the cad files over to one of the drafters. A lot of details were not modified to their layer system. I often did preliminary layouts and design in cad. My sketches are terrible and it was as fast for me to do them up in cad.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[drawoh]

Hello everyone,

Quick question. What do you all think of having a business’s projects archive as printing and digital backups versus no printing and digital backup only?

I am playing with OnShape here at home. I believe companies are starting to use it for serious work. It seems capable enough. If my data is up on the cloud on a computer not under my control, I need to download something. If I cannot get at the parametric CAD[ ]model, my next choice would be a set of drawings, complete with full GD&T. This is how you protect yourself from CAD[ ]vendors who adopt new business models.

I am not paranoid about PDF. There is all sorts of Free Software that supports it. I am running GNU/Linux here at home, and Adobe no longer supports us. This is not a problem.

I spent fifteen years on a drafting board. If your valuable data is stored on paper, that paper must be protected. It is difficult to back up paper archives. If the paper fits through your scanner, you are back managing PDF[ ]files.

--
JHG

 

[IRstuff]

Having seen scanned bluelines, yeech... Direct digital is way better

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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