Promoted by still forced to support old team 10

[ERA21]

I was promoted after 4 months with my company ( my former boss had no professional knowledge so I was involved in every technical aspect of every project, his lack of knowledge actually helped me get my promotion).

Since my former boss was incompetent, he would steal my work, my documentations and my ideas.
I complained to the upper management that his position required qualifications that he did not have, and he should be replaced. Otherwise I would quit. My upper management told me it was not up to me to dispute his position.I was promoted the next month, with the understanding that I would support my department for 2 months. It has been almost 5 months and I still support that department on a daily basis. My former incompetent boss is still there, and my replacement does not have my background.

Since they never solve any problems, and they keep pushing, hiding and ignoring them, right now all the projects are in a lot of trouble and the upper management wants me to help.

I do not want to be involved in helping incompetent people keep their job expecially one who would steal my work. How do I refuse while still being a team player?
However I do not want to be treated as the person who did nothing while the company lost customers.

Then the questions that I have is this, why is there expectation for me to keep doing my former job, while there is no expectation towards my former boss to do his job?
Why are they ignoring the elephant in the room?

The worst part of this is that my current boss has asked me to continue helping my old department while fully knowing how I feel about all this.

 

[IRstuff]

Simple, you're a wuss. You threatened to leave, and then you stayed and did everything that you said you didn't want to do.

Quit, and offer to your old job as a contractor at double your current salary, and then, you won't care what the company does with your old boss.

Or, quit, and find a better job.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ERA21]

My current position is the dream job for any engineer.
The people that I work with are very professional and the salary is good, and it also allows me to travel internationally to meet with other teams. It will provide me with the experience that I need if I decide to open my own business in the future.

Is just that I have this other part time job to do every day. It feels like a bad relationship, I cannot get rid of.


I really do not want to quit my current job ( even though I have told my current boss he cannot hold it as hostage, since my life does not revolve around it)

 

[jmw]

In the real world..... well, if I joined a company and within 4 months approached the top management to say my boss was a dummy, stealing my work and claiming the credit and unfit for the position and that if they didn't sack him I'd resign, I wouldn't expect to be politely told that it was not for me to dispute his position, transferred, promoted and asked to ride herd on the old department.

I'd expect to be treated as a jerk and shown the door.

The fact that you haven't been suggests that you are the worst nightmare a manager can have... someone who has sufficient value that immediate dismissal isn't an option. That means they have to play smart.

In no company that I know of is any employee ever considered to be irreplaceable, more valuable than the CEO.
Managers will protect themselves. They don't always care that by getting rid of a valuable person they are damaging the company. No one will admit that any one employee has that value.
HR believes that there are plenty more fish in the sea and that they can always replace anyone.

You must be just about the most threatening employee ever to grace any companies doors......by rights you probably should have seen them last only as you followed your personal possessions into the street.... having laid in to your initial boss in no uncertain terms they have to ask themselves who is net on your list? How up up the tree will you climb and who will you not tread on?

So it appears to me that you married the boss's daughter or you know where some bodies are buried.
Or, you have a very real value and that for the short term they don't dare let you get away.
Long term? I wouldn't, myself, count on a long term.

Unless there is a lot you haven't said.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[sms]

A star for you JMW..

ERA21, you are so out of there. It may be sooner, or it may be later, but eventually they will find the right time to get rid of you and you are gone.

My advice is to start looking for a new job now.




"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[weeeds]

ERA21, you sound reasonably young, and definitely inexperienced in the real engineering world.
jmw and sms are both right.
But, should you wish to develop yourself as a professional, then another approach could be to suggest that all requests for help from the previous group be directed through your new boss. This way your new boss will be aware of the type and quantity of work you are being asked to do. If he considers these to be unreasonable then he may stand up for you to management. If he makes no comments then perhaps this will indicate a problem with your expectations.

 

[ERA21]

When my concerns were not address properly, I started to look for another job and also applied for a different position in a different department in the same company. Somehow the Top executives found out I was looking for another job/position and offered me a high management position. ( Top executives knew me since I saved them a multi-million dollar account during my probation but that’s another story)
All I wanted was to work with qualified engineers in a good working environment, where I can take pride in my work, and not have to worry about office politics.
I really want to stop my support without causing any problems. Is this the ethical thing to do?
My constant support allows my former boss to give the impression to the upper management that things are good (since I am always in the back ground and I rarely take credit for my help).
I understand I am not being too detailed, but this is a public forum

 

[sms]

Ok, lets back up and help you untangle this...

1) You need to worry about you and not anyone else. If you have a team working for you you need to worry about them too.

2) If your old boss is really behaving in the way you describe, it will catch up with him eventually. If he is stealing your work and your credit, take that as a compliment and carry on. Again it will catch up with him eventually.

3) You need to do what is necessary and right for the success of the organization. If that means helping this guy out, do so. If it starts to effect your job, then you need to discuss priorities with your manager. Helping out the old group may well be the highest priority.

4) The secret to success is to make your managers look good, to help your direct reports succeed, and to avoid making enemies in high places. A positive attitude goes a long, long way in helping you succeed, take a positive approach to the situation, and make it successful.

5) Relax, don't let office politics make you miserable... I know, that is way easier said than done...





"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[Comcokid]

As Morpheus said to Neo in Matrix "You've been living in a dream world" and "Welcome to the real world."

No - I'm not saying it's right. I just saying it happens.

I've worked in similar situations three-times before. The last time it wasn’t a manager, it was a technician. He had done little work for 10 years, was known to be a pain to give work to, and was always on the phone on non-business personal chat. Eventually they assigned him under me, and I wrote him up after documenting his behavior for three months. Surprise, surprise, it was me that was laid-off a year later - I had stepped on a hidden political land mine. Despite the fact that a number of people went to HR and filed complaints over the decision to let me go (I had done very good work and had good reviews) the tech had long time friends in very high places.

Don't expect that the situation will correct itself other than by the "problem" reaching retirement age.

In my experience, such a situation is a symptom of a larger issue dealing with the management ranks at your company. By promoting you to management they have not done you a career favor. Prov 13:20 "He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm". Nobody who works closely with incompetent engineers should expect to learn anything, nor anyone who works closely with dysfunctional management.

If you buck the system, you will have a job only as long as you're irreplacable - usually a very temporary situation.

 

[Ashereng]

What you are asking does not seem like an ethics question to me.

It sounds more like a "This is my situation, what should I do question."

The answer is, stop whining - no one appreciates a whiner.

Decide what you want to do, and do it - you don't need to announce it, your actions will speak for you.

If you want to stay in your current job, I would suggest you do what your boss is asking you - after all he is your boss.

If you do not want to do what your boss is currently asking you to do, then I would suggest you leave.

Making demands rarely work - everyone around you involved will remember. Threatening to leave and then staying also rarely work - everyone around you involved will remember. If you want to work with professional people, then you need to act professionally - otherwise, why would the professional people want to work with you.

I do not know who is right and what have you - this is a "he said, she said" type of situration since we only have your side of the picture. So, please, I am not passing judgement. I am trying to let you know a bit of what other people in your company that are watching this soap opera may be thinking in their heads.

If the situation you describe is unacceptable to you, then you should leave. If you stay, then you need to work within the system and follow the "rules".

Best of luck dealing with your situation.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ERA21]

Ashereng


I truly believe my present help is actually causing more damage in the long run, since I am constantly supplying solutions, the team there is not having the opportunity to grow together and find these solutions together.


But I truly do not take pride in helping that department because it is not the right thing to do.

 

[BJC]

ERA21
It's unethical to waste your time an talent on such an undeserving bunch of marginal people. They are desined to failure. Go somewhere else and save a more worthy group.

 

[EddyC]

I'm sure that management has been fully aware of the capabilities of its long time staff. Unless there are laws being broken and lives/property being placed in danger, you should either work in the manner that your superiors want or go get a new job. Management has the right to damage their company by making poor decisions, if they so choose. Its their perogative. I worked with one firm that had numerous incompetent staff members. These particular folks were allowed to keep their jobs because they had religious/ethnic identities similar to the boss. That's life.

 

[sms]

ERA21, you said:

"I truly believe my present help is actually causing more damage in the long run, since I am constantly supplying solutions, the team there is not having the opportunity to grow together and find these solutions together.

But I truly do not take pride in helping that department because it is not the right thing to do."

I am curious how you arrived at these conclusions and what your basis or frame of ethical reference is for them.

In the first case, if the team doesn't know how, they will never grow together and find these solutions. The old proverb is "Give a man a fish and he will eat for today, teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for life." Are you feeding this group or teaching them?

In the second case, how is helping people not the right thing to do? What is your ethical basis for that statement?






"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[IRstuff]

The "right" thing to do is to mentor and teach them how to do the problems.


In fact, if you are not doing that precise thing, one can only conclude that you desire to continue bailing them out because it serves your own needs.

Given that you appear to have some degree of leverage, you can demand that the best and brightness of that group be assigned to you so that you can teach him/her how to solve these problems. It should be a win-win for everyone involved, unless you have some perverse desire to be the lynchpin that you complain about being.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[bridgebuster]

ERA21:

Two choices: Shut-up or quit. No offense but that's reality.

At ___ ___, where I work, we're bombarded by propaganda that tells us one thing but the company operates another way.

Remember the old saying: "You can't fight city hall."

 

[bridgebuster]

ERA21:

Let me add to my previous post.

Where I work, bridge and highway engineers are in one group. I'm a bridge engineer; boss is a highway engineer. I've known him about 20 years; decent person. Like a number of people, I can't stand working for him because he doesn't trust anyone's ability, judgement, or opinion. go behind someone's back and tell another that so and so can't be trusted. I think it's because he doubts his capabilities.

Previous boss (now runs the office), also a highway guy; I've known him about 10 years; decent person. Another person I couldn't stand working for because he doesn't trust anyone's loyalty. If he thinks someone is undermining him or being critical of him: He smacks them down; doesn't care who sees it(actually he likes it that way).

Why have I put up with it for the past couple of years? High salary; 4-weeks vacation; come and go as I please. Am I happy? NO! Salary, time off, etc, can only go so far but it doesn't take away the bitterness; only makes it worse.

One day you realize: Get out; it's the best thing!

 

[ERA21]

Thank you everyone,
I really appriciate your advices, even the hard ones.

When I started to work, the fact that my boss was incompetent and I had no around the clock mentor like my replacement has, it actually helped me to learn things better and I created a great relationship with all the departments. It pushed me to really good at this job, and change my mediocre position to a really important for the entire company.(My former boss not only he was not an engineer, but he had no training, no former education and no experience)


And i QUIT that job because I believe that incompetence and intellectual theft should be punished and not rewarded.

I thought that fellow engineers would agree with me.

 

[kenvlach]

ERA21, I agree with most responses. You seem young and idealistic. You want to solve every problem you encounter. But the cruel reality is that the world is full of problematic people. I learned the hard way: In a small company where I had many responsibilities (even on the board of directors), I found out the CFO had lied about past employment and was embezzling. I told the CEO owner in front of witnesses (his wife & in-laws) since previous matters (cheating employees of contractual bonuses via fraudulent bookkeeping) had been ignored. The CEO already knew! Result: Locks were changed to limit my access to company financials; turns out that lying and embezzlement are desirable job skills when cheating the IRS.

I suggest: Don't get emotionally involved with your job, and especially don't worry about the ex-boss. The following may help:

The Serenity Prayer by Reinhold Niebuhr (ca. 1934):
"God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other."

The Desiderata by Max Ehrmann (1927):
"Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others; even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism

Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."

http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~kcrumpto/des.html

 

[sms]

"And i QUIT that job because I believe that incompetence and intellectual theft should be punished and not rewarded.

I thought that fellow engineers would agree with me."

Intellectual theft should not be rewarded, I think we would all agree with that. Your arrogant attitude should not be rewarded either.

Your managment is in the position of figuring out how to deal with this guy, not you.

Perhaps...

The guy has terminal cancer and managment is keeping him on out of compassion.

he has served well in the past and they are tying to give him a break.

he is in company sponsered drug or alcohol treatment.

he is the CEO's son in law...

he has an open lawsuit against the company and has a restraining order preventing them from firing him.

I don't know what is going on with this guy, but neither do you...


"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.