PV solar system for house in EUrope

[ColinScowen]

Hi all. Happy new year!

This is an initial post for a project that I am hoping to do this year.

Background: I live in the Czech Republic, in a south facing house with two roofs of different pitch (I will measure the pitch (approx fifty something and forty something)and area later on when the temp rises above freezing!).
I currently have a coal boiler that provides my heating and hot water in the winter, and an electric immersion heater that provides hot water in the summer. I do not have any gas connection here. (I have already read thread248-189091, which I found very useful) We also suffer from periodic power cuts, which are very infuriating. I also have a number of breaker boxes around the house, after the main breakers. There is also an RE shop in the town where I live. (I haven't been there yet, I wanted to get some background first.)

Now, the cost of coal is rising, as is the cost of electricity. I am seriously considering putting in a PV system. I do not understand the local laws regarding net metering at the moment, but it is something I will be researching.

At the moment I am looking for some help with the initial stages.
I have spent a month recording my daily power usage, seems to be about 25kWh per day.
I would like to be completely independent of the grid, but without some significant work on the house, I don't see that happening.

My current expectation is that I would get two banks of PV on the roofs (Larger bank on the fifty something roof, as this would work better in the winter), connected to a bank of batteries. I would then have a converter, to convert the dc to ac. Similar to solar power in a motor home, but on a larger scale.
I am toying with either connecting the system to the house through a separate circuit, so that I have the choice of connecting to RE or grid, or connecting to certain of my breaker boxes and controlling what gets used where in that way.
My preference is the former, since that makes the choice of outlet very obvious to everyone, it also allows me to reduce the load to the bank of batteries in the winter, when they would receive less charge from the PV system.

My initial questions are:
I have done some rough usage measurements, but are there any others that I should do that spring to mind?
Does anyone know of any websites, similar to the one posted in thread248-189091, but in EUrope? Or indeed any other websites that I may find useful?
Are there any suppliers that I should or shouldn't use?
Has anyone done a similar project themselves?
What are the different issues I may face in mounting and connecting the systems (I don't expect the system to pay for itself now, but, with cost increases and inflation and such like in the future, it may come close.)?
Are LiIon batteries better here, or should I stick with Lead Acid?
Does anyone have any different ideas about how I may be able to do this better?

Regards, Colin.

 

[itsmoked]

LA batteries are your only choice.

25kWhr/day is a serious setup. You will need about 5kW of panels. Think $500/100W of panel.

5kW x $500/100W = $25,000
Then you need a massive bank of batteries.
And about $8,000 of inverters.

You are probably talking about ~ $40k.

Are these numbers you can handle?


If you can change your house so:
1)It is better insulated.
2)Solar heats the water.
3)Your refrigerator is an off-the-grid type.
4)Less vampires.
5)Better lighting management.

you will see a better return on investment, and you can then save on your solar PV system because of reduced size.

If, in-fact, you really are just annoyed about regular power losses then you should address that instead.

You could put in a sizable battery system (allow for expansion). Put in a single, large, gang-able, grid-tie inverter. It will charge your battery bank and keep it maintained. Divide your house circuits into ones you will be satisfied with during power loss, and that your inverter can handle to minimize your battery load during utility failures.

This will let you avoid the aggravation of blackouts.

Then as your wallet can stand it you can add some panels and see how they perform in your application.

Keep in mind the price of panels should start to drop dramatically in the coming year or two.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[electricuwe]

I fully agree to itsmoked. Before considering using PV refrain form using electric engergy to heat water. I do not know, if it is worth while to get totally independent from the utility, but if a sound reduction of electricity consumption has been achieved you might consider a PV-inveter from SMA, that can be upgraded to UPS (Backup)operation. They also have inverters that can accept inputs from two individual solar panel areas exposed to different conditions.

http://www.sma.de/en.html

 

[OperaHouse]

Visit

http://www.otherpower.com

message board for the experience of others. Solar is not a money saving idea unless the government is supplying a lot of the funds. I have a camp run by only 150W of solar panels. I'd love to get 1KWH a day to run the place. I spent about 6 months living there last year and I managed. It can be done with a lot of effort.

 

[LionelHutz]

The first step is to figure out where that 25kWh and where the coal boiler heat is going and the cheapest way to reduce this power use. You need to do a more detailed study of your electrical/energy use and come up with ways to reduce it. You have to balance spending money on making your house more energy efficient vs spending money on RE equipment.

You mention heating water so you should look at direct solar water heating.

A good site for home RE is

http://www.homepower.com

Read everything on renewable you can find. The magazine is a good read.

 

[ColinScowen]

Guys,
thanks very much for the info so far, the homepower and otherpower websites have some useful info there. If anyone knows of a European site, that would be most welcome as well. I am going to make two posts now, this one, were I try to work through some of the technical aspects, and another one to try to explain in some more detail the 'why I want to do this'. I can see from some of the responses that my first post wasn't really very clear on this.

So, to the technical side.
As far as the option of not using electricity to heat the water. Electricity is only used to heat water in the summer when the central heating is off. The power used by the heater in the summer is roughly equivalent to the electrical power consumed by the boiler, chimney fan, pumps and controller in the winter, so there is little to be gained there.
I only have one viable utility connection here, and that is the electric. I do not have a gas line, and my wife (She who must be obeyed ) has vetoed a standalone gas cylinder on several grounds.

The coal is far and away the biggest cost in this whole thing. To put it into perspective, I spend, per year, 1 months wages on coal to heat the house and the water for 5 months. On top of that I am paying, per year, 1/2 a months wages to the electricity company.
I like the idea of the gangable inverter, since that would give me the chance to initially spec a system that would remove the reliance on coal, still keep me on the grid in terms of emergency charging needs, and allow for subsequent upgrades as costs and tech upgrades permit. (For Info, yesterday and the day before were -19 C, today it warmed to -6, but with snow clouds, so I am thinking that solar water heating is probably not gonna work, unless I get those hugely expensive parabolic mirrors and a very safe ladder to be able to clean the snow off.)
I plan to take a day holiday in the next week or so, to just spend the time watching the meter, and I will do a similar thing on Sunday as well. This should hopefully give me a proven profile of my energy use, rather than the reasonable guess I have now.

Regarding the house itself.
It's about 120 years old, the ground floor has metre thick rubble, rock and mortar walls, the middle floor is logs with clay and straw stuffing the joints. Some rooms have been plasterboarded (drywalled) but there is not any insulation between the board and the outside walls. The roof has been converted and insulated. The bathroom/boiler room is an extension to the side of the house, not particularly well made. The central heating is about 10 - 15 years old, and has been, in my opinion, not particularly well thought out.

I plan to install thermostatic valves in the radiators, replace a couple of aging ones, and move a few of them around to get more heat in the places it should be.
I have replaced nearly all the most often used standard bulbs with low power ones, and am planning to replace some of the flush mounted halogen spot lamps with LED lamps (I will probably build some small wooden enclosures that will house 3 or 4 LED lamps that will connect to the supply for the halogen lamps (Have to get those done well, so that the wife will approve).).
We also put double glazed windows in two years ago.

My wife and indeed I, love the house we have, because of the character it has, and major building work is out of the question, both for that reason, and because we live in an area that has some rather strict planning regs (another possible project killer, but I will cross that bridge once I have an idea what size installation I am talking about).

So, to Keith's points, using B&D's pegged rates for this year, 40K USD translates to about 800K Czk, which is doable, if the repayments are spread out over several years, especially when the coal costs are factored in (Might also get some EU grant as well, which will help). I am planning on the lighting and if I get two ring mains in the house, then I can manage the vampires.

I like the sound of the SMA inverters and will look into them in more detail.

Regards, and thanks again for the help so far,

Colin.

 

[ColinScowen]

And now the second post.

Why do I want to go to a PV system.

There is a lot of use of brown coal over here. In the autumn, winter and spring, as I drive up the valley, I can see the dirt and smog in the atmosphere. I am contributing to that, and it is something that I don't like. I also see, because I have to hump it in, and clean it out, exactly how much coal is being burnt and how much waste it produces. It also smells bad as well. This is also something that I don't like.

I am lucky in that my house is well situated for a roof mounted system, and I am in a financial state that I can afford the initial investments.

I am the type of person who rather than saying that something should be done by someone else, will go ahead and do a little something myself.
I am working off the theory that if I show it can be done, if I lead by example, then others will start to do it as well. I have noticed this a lot at work, so it's not just a theory. I also want to try to get this attitude built into my kids as they grow up as well.
I am also hoping that by doing this, and helping others to do this, that this will drive the demand for this type of system up, so reducing the cost in the long term for everyone. We may also get to the point, in the future, where if enough people are generating, using whatever method best suits their environment, as well as consuming, that old power stations start to not need to be replaced, but can just be closed down, and the steam turbines used in different generation systems such as solar steam, or geothermal.


If anybody is interested, and uses Google Earth or similar, my house is at Lat and Long 50 44 18.79 N, 14 16 34.05 E.

Regards, Colin.