I gave up my Engineering dream in college (class of 2001) because I didn't want to kill myself for a few good years of work before I quit for kids. Now I want to go back, but I wouldn't even be able to finish my degree for at least 5 years (probably longer). Then I might not even be able to work full time for a few more (depending on how many kids we have). Will I be able to find a job? Is is worth it?
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Question for Parents and Future Parents 9
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TurbulentFluid
Mechanical
HgTX,
agreed, for medical stuff one should rely on their doctor, not 'net... What's wrong with multiple births? You solve everything at once!![[afro2]](/data/assets/smilies/afro2.gif "[afro2] [afro2]")
Then again 2-3 babies crying at ONCE, oh good gods... ![[morning]](/data/assets/smilies/morning.gif "[morning] [morning]")
![[bigsmile]](/data/assets/smilies/bigsmile.gif "[bigsmile] [bigsmile]")
agreed, for medical stuff one should rely on their doctor, not 'net... What's wrong with multiple births? You solve everything at once!
Then again 2-3 babies crying at ONCE, oh good gods... Multiple-birth babies, even just twins, are more likely to have low birth weight, which can mean medical problems for the infants, or to be premature, which can definitely mean medical problems for the infants, or to be oriented in some strange way that will require a cesarian section, which is major surgery and thus can mean medical problems for the mother, or other weird and possibly fatal stuff--look up "twin to twin transfusion" as an example.
Not something one should be going out of one's way to encourage.
In my non-medical opinion.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Not something one should be going out of one's way to encourage.
In my non-medical opinion.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
TurbulentFluid
Mechanical
Well...
In my non-medical opinion, I know quite a few twins, and they all seem to be just fine. Also, some women are genetically predispositioned to have a multiple birth, and it has nothing to do with their age. Just take what nature gives, I think the real question was how to have a career and a family without either suffering because of the other.
Personally, I don't think it's really possible. You'll always end up missing your son's games for being at work, and you'll always end up missing the business meetings for kids being sick. the trick is to find a balance.
In my non-medical opinion, I know quite a few twins, and they all seem to be just fine. Also, some women are genetically predispositioned to have a multiple birth, and it has nothing to do with their age. Just take what nature gives, I think the real question was how to have a career and a family without either suffering because of the other.
Personally, I don't think it's really possible. You'll always end up missing your son's games for being at work, and you'll always end up missing the business meetings for kids being sick. the trick is to find a balance.
re medical advice on an engineering forum...
That's symptomatic of engineers... we think we understand everything: medical science, economics, law, marketing... but that's a very serious underestimate of other people's expertise.
A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!
Having said that, if you see how easily our 23 yr old secretaries recover from child birth (the next day they're as beautiful again as 9 months before), why would one wait until 36? :-D
That's symptomatic of engineers... we think we understand everything: medical science, economics, law, marketing... but that's a very serious underestimate of other people's expertise.
A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!
Having said that, if you see how easily our 23 yr old secretaries recover from child birth (the next day they're as beautiful again as 9 months before), why would one wait until 36? :-D
waskillywabbit
Mechanical
re non-experiential advice and tacking on from above...
"A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!"
Or
Parental advice from a non-parent. Pregnancy/child birth advice from a non-parent. Etc. ad nauseum. If you haven't made the trip, don't try and be a tour guide.
Brian
"A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!"
Or
Parental advice from a non-parent. Pregnancy/child birth advice from a non-parent. Etc. ad nauseum. If you haven't made the trip, don't try and be a tour guide.
Brian
As engineers, we should only give our advice in areas that we KNOW we are competent to engage in. We can of course always give unqualified opinions.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
BrunoPuntzJones
Materials
HgTX,
You mentioned the increased need for cesarian section as a major downside to multiple births. I recently attended a talk on the subject and one of the doctors speaking was putting forward the view that c sections were actually no more dangerous than vaginal birth. While the mortality rate is something like 3 times higher for c sections, his claim was that this was due to the elevated risks that woman who required c sections already faced and not due to the procedure itself. He also said that the mortality rate for c sections was dropping faster then the mortality rate for vaginal births. He proposed that in the near future the mortality rate for c sections may even drop below that of vaginal births.
*Disclaimer:I have know idea how much merit his argument holds. I have not seen the statistics. I have no knowledge of surgery. I have never given birth to anyone.*
You just reminded me of the talk and I thought I would share.
You mentioned the increased need for cesarian section as a major downside to multiple births. I recently attended a talk on the subject and one of the doctors speaking was putting forward the view that c sections were actually no more dangerous than vaginal birth. While the mortality rate is something like 3 times higher for c sections, his claim was that this was due to the elevated risks that woman who required c sections already faced and not due to the procedure itself. He also said that the mortality rate for c sections was dropping faster then the mortality rate for vaginal births. He proposed that in the near future the mortality rate for c sections may even drop below that of vaginal births.
*Disclaimer:I have know idea how much merit his argument holds. I have not seen the statistics. I have no knowledge of surgery. I have never given birth to anyone.*
You just reminded me of the talk and I thought I would share.
Ditto, the latest issue of a Family Practice journal states that once all the risks, etc., are aired, a patient's desire for a C-section should be honored.
Surgical procedures have had a rocky history. Radical mastectomies used to be the norm for breast cancer.
Even in normal vagina births, there's great controversy about a certain surgical procedure intended to minimize tissue tearing.
TTFN
Surgical procedures have had a rocky history. Radical mastectomies used to be the norm for breast cancer.
Even in normal vagina births, there's great controversy about a certain surgical procedure intended to minimize tissue tearing.
TTFN
ilovechickens
Mechanical
Back to the main topic, re is it worth it? That is a tricky question. I worked for 5 years before I went to University and got my degree, then worked/travelled for a few years before having kids. I still work full time and travel occasionally with my work.
From a purely financial perspeective I would say if you plan on taking time off work to study, and then start a family after you have your degree, that it is not worth it, you'll have lost 5 years salary to get your qualification, which you will not then use for another few years.
If you could study part time while you are bringing up you family then you may find the financial $$ work out a little more in your favour. Although I can not imagine trying to study with kids runnng around, getting you up in the night, being sick etc etc. From experience, I can truly say don't think once they sleep through the night at six weeks you are over the worst of it, that was the easy bit.
If you love kids that much and want 4 you may also find you do not want to go back to work, and with 4 kids you'll find it hard to work full time as the cost of child care etc, once they are at school there are all the holidays, sick days etc etc.
If your husband is not very supportive of the idea that will make things tricky as well, you'll need lots of support from him to have kids and to study.
But after all that if you really want/need to do this, and are willing to make the time and the sacrifice to do it, then I would say go for it. Money is only one factor in life and surely money spent on education is not wasted.
So what if it takes 10 years part time work? To be honest you never know what the future holds and from personal circumstances it is very important for me to know that I can support my family myself if anything happened to my husband.
Another option is to consider going a slightly different path - do you need a degree? could you move into something like perhaps becoming a design draughtsperson? You could learn on the job, I imagine part time work would be more readily available and if you are good you will earn as much as an engineer, be able to get very involved in the work you are doing and even work from home.
One other thing to remember - having kids kills your brain cells (or maybe all the sleepless nights do that) so the sooner you can study the better - the older you get the harder it is to study.
From a purely financial perspeective I would say if you plan on taking time off work to study, and then start a family after you have your degree, that it is not worth it, you'll have lost 5 years salary to get your qualification, which you will not then use for another few years.
If you could study part time while you are bringing up you family then you may find the financial $$ work out a little more in your favour. Although I can not imagine trying to study with kids runnng around, getting you up in the night, being sick etc etc. From experience, I can truly say don't think once they sleep through the night at six weeks you are over the worst of it, that was the easy bit.
If you love kids that much and want 4 you may also find you do not want to go back to work, and with 4 kids you'll find it hard to work full time as the cost of child care etc, once they are at school there are all the holidays, sick days etc etc.
If your husband is not very supportive of the idea that will make things tricky as well, you'll need lots of support from him to have kids and to study.
But after all that if you really want/need to do this, and are willing to make the time and the sacrifice to do it, then I would say go for it. Money is only one factor in life and surely money spent on education is not wasted.
So what if it takes 10 years part time work? To be honest you never know what the future holds and from personal circumstances it is very important for me to know that I can support my family myself if anything happened to my husband.
Another option is to consider going a slightly different path - do you need a degree? could you move into something like perhaps becoming a design draughtsperson? You could learn on the job, I imagine part time work would be more readily available and if you are good you will earn as much as an engineer, be able to get very involved in the work you are doing and even work from home.
One other thing to remember - having kids kills your brain cells (or maybe all the sleepless nights do that) so the sooner you can study the better - the older you get the harder it is to study.
Anecdotal report:
I have known a number of women who were in grad school (even PhD programs) with babies, including one single mother who went to grad school for the express purpose of having more time with her child than she would with her 9-to-5 job. I haven't seen this in engineering school (mostly because of the demographics, I suspect), and don't know if it would be more or less difficult to accomplish than in a social science program. (I myself had more spare time as an engineering grad student than as a social science grad student.)
I have known men who went through engineering school with babies, but they were not the primary caregivers.
I have seen my mother and many of my friends go through pregnancies in their 30s & 40s. Much more paranoia on the part of their doctors, a very high incidence of twins (including a case of twin-to-twin transfusion which fortunately cleared up), and more/worse complications (as compared to earlier pregnancies) like gestational diabetes and placental hemorrhaging.
On the other hand, I haven't heard a single one of those women say, "Gosh, knowing what I do now, I wish I'd planned to have that child earlier."
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
I have known a number of women who were in grad school (even PhD programs) with babies, including one single mother who went to grad school for the express purpose of having more time with her child than she would with her 9-to-5 job. I haven't seen this in engineering school (mostly because of the demographics, I suspect), and don't know if it would be more or less difficult to accomplish than in a social science program. (I myself had more spare time as an engineering grad student than as a social science grad student.)
I have known men who went through engineering school with babies, but they were not the primary caregivers.
I have seen my mother and many of my friends go through pregnancies in their 30s & 40s. Much more paranoia on the part of their doctors, a very high incidence of twins (including a case of twin-to-twin transfusion which fortunately cleared up), and more/worse complications (as compared to earlier pregnancies) like gestational diabetes and placental hemorrhaging.
On the other hand, I haven't heard a single one of those women say, "Gosh, knowing what I do now, I wish I'd planned to have that child earlier."
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
TurbulentFluid
Mechanical
Interesting points here...
I sort of thought that engineers were also human beings and were competent in other fields aside of engineering. I also thought a unique property of a human being was the possibility of learning on other people's experience without seeing it done or trying it themselves.
So basically a woman who wants to be an engineer can't come to an engineering forum and ask such a question because:
a) they're engineers.They wouldn't know anything about families, childbirths or such a field of medicine, or anything ELSE which isn't related to engineering. Actually, they should refrain from boiling an egg for not having a proper certificate.
b) they're mostly men. They never were a mother so they don't know first thing about it, or about being a mother raising children and going to college, or about being a mother and raising children and working, or abour sore nipples once the kid started teething. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
c) the women on the forum who never gave birth and had children are in the same position of ignorance as all other men. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
d) the women who WERE in such a position (had a child, had a child&studied, had a child&worked) here are just engineers so apply rule #1.
And superficially reasoning, one would think an engineering forum would be a right place to ask whether engineering career was compatibile with family... I love this forum, lol!![[2thumbsup]](/data/assets/smilies/2thumbsup.gif "[2thumbsup] [2thumbsup]")
Joking aside, I think HgTx has about the best grasp on it. I know a lot of women who had kids very early, and now have sucessful careers as kids grew up and the mothers were young enough to go on. These "kids" are now my age. I also know a lot of women who had children later, after establishing their careers. And I also never heard any of them say "I wish I had that kid later/earlier in life".
Maybe this is just one of those things where you have to go by the gut... if you're generation 2001. you're young enough for everything. I still don't understand why you gave up schooling, though, it's 2006 and it seems you still have no kids...?
I sort of thought that engineers were also human beings and were competent in other fields aside of engineering. I also thought a unique property of a human being was the possibility of learning on other people's experience without seeing it done or trying it themselves.
So basically a woman who wants to be an engineer can't come to an engineering forum and ask such a question because:
a) they're engineers.They wouldn't know anything about families, childbirths or such a field of medicine, or anything ELSE which isn't related to engineering. Actually, they should refrain from boiling an egg for not having a proper certificate.
b) they're mostly men. They never were a mother so they don't know first thing about it, or about being a mother raising children and going to college, or about being a mother and raising children and working, or abour sore nipples once the kid started teething. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
c) the women on the forum who never gave birth and had children are in the same position of ignorance as all other men. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
d) the women who WERE in such a position (had a child, had a child&studied, had a child&worked) here are just engineers so apply rule #1.
And superficially reasoning, one would think an engineering forum would be a right place to ask whether engineering career was compatibile with family... I love this forum, lol!
Joking aside, I think HgTx has about the best grasp on it. I know a lot of women who had kids very early, and now have sucessful careers as kids grew up and the mothers were young enough to go on. These "kids" are now my age. I also know a lot of women who had children later, after establishing their careers. And I also never heard any of them say "I wish I had that kid later/earlier in life".
Maybe this is just one of those things where you have to go by the gut... if you're generation 2001. you're young enough for everything. I still don't understand why you gave up schooling, though, it's 2006 and it seems you still have no kids...?
I think one key with trying to balance kids & work is to be as aware as one can be ahead of time of what kind of problems and conflicts one is likely to run into, and either take steps to avoid the problems, or else be prepared to accept the consequences.
Examples:
1. The "mommy track"--fewer opportunities offered because employers make assumptions about the parent's commitment or availablility.
2. The trouble getting hired with a chronological hole in one's resume and with experience that is not quite state of the art.
3. Increased need to be away from work because of sick child or school functions. (See also #1 above.)
4. Angst over not being able to be home with a sick child or attend school functions.
5. Etc.
There are ways to come to terms with angst. There are ways to keep a toe in one's industry while off doing the parent thing. It's all doable. Just don't be shocked when things don't go perfectly...
...like the woman on another forum who had backed out of employment offers in order to follow her husband around the globe and bear his children, and then was annoyed because several years later employers weren't just snapping her right up. She seemed to feel she should have been rewarded for doing her religious and social duty. And sure, she may very well be rewarded--but not by the job market!
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Examples:
1. The "mommy track"--fewer opportunities offered because employers make assumptions about the parent's commitment or availablility.
2. The trouble getting hired with a chronological hole in one's resume and with experience that is not quite state of the art.
3. Increased need to be away from work because of sick child or school functions. (See also #1 above.)
4. Angst over not being able to be home with a sick child or attend school functions.
5. Etc.
There are ways to come to terms with angst. There are ways to keep a toe in one's industry while off doing the parent thing. It's all doable. Just don't be shocked when things don't go perfectly...
...like the woman on another forum who had backed out of employment offers in order to follow her husband around the globe and bear his children, and then was annoyed because several years later employers weren't just snapping her right up. She seemed to feel she should have been rewarded for doing her religious and social duty. And sure, she may very well be rewarded--but not by the job market!
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Wow, a long thread that I ignored until today, and I find out it is not what I was expecting. So, now for my own 2 cents worth.
It took me a little bit to figure out that you must be a woman. No problem there, there were many women in my engineering school and the women engineers I have worked with are just as competent as the guys; some more so, some less so (but probably mostly more so).
Anyway, the reason I write is twofold: I worked very hard to get my own education, floundering around, quitting colleges several times before I got really serious. I finally got my BS and MS when I was 31. This may be cliched, but I also discovered that going to college had disciplined my thinking, broadened my mind, taught me the joy of delayed gratifications and working towards a goal, etc, etc. If for no other reason than this you might consider continuing your own education, even part-time.
One of my friends has a civil engineering degree from Vanderbilt. She got married, kids, etc, then she helped her husband run their commercial real estate investment company. Once the kids were on their own, in college, she wanted to get back into engineering. Without too much trouble she was able to get a job with the city public works department (streets, highways, water distribution, that sort of thing). So, this shows that a return to the professional workforce can be done.
To follow up on my first point of college providing a discipline for ones mind, etc. Once you have a college degree many more doors are open to you. Even if you don't work specifically in the discipline in which you were trained or educated (say, engineering) the college education makes one a better candidate for any number of other positions. I know of engineers who worked in banks, insurance companies, stock brokerages as analysts, etc, etc. There is no need to be locked into engineering.
Maybe a final issue is complete college to provide a role model for your children. Show them that they can achieve all that they can by doing it yourself.
Good Luck!
It took me a little bit to figure out that you must be a woman. No problem there, there were many women in my engineering school and the women engineers I have worked with are just as competent as the guys; some more so, some less so (but probably mostly more so).
Anyway, the reason I write is twofold: I worked very hard to get my own education, floundering around, quitting colleges several times before I got really serious. I finally got my BS and MS when I was 31. This may be cliched, but I also discovered that going to college had disciplined my thinking, broadened my mind, taught me the joy of delayed gratifications and working towards a goal, etc, etc. If for no other reason than this you might consider continuing your own education, even part-time.
One of my friends has a civil engineering degree from Vanderbilt. She got married, kids, etc, then she helped her husband run their commercial real estate investment company. Once the kids were on their own, in college, she wanted to get back into engineering. Without too much trouble she was able to get a job with the city public works department (streets, highways, water distribution, that sort of thing). So, this shows that a return to the professional workforce can be done.
To follow up on my first point of college providing a discipline for ones mind, etc. Once you have a college degree many more doors are open to you. Even if you don't work specifically in the discipline in which you were trained or educated (say, engineering) the college education makes one a better candidate for any number of other positions. I know of engineers who worked in banks, insurance companies, stock brokerages as analysts, etc, etc. There is no need to be locked into engineering.
Maybe a final issue is complete college to provide a role model for your children. Show them that they can achieve all that they can by doing it yourself.
Good Luck!
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