Questions for Mechanical engineer technologist 4

[RBX]

Any of you guys ME technologists?

Ive been an ME tech for about 6 years designing machines and i love it..but i would like to perfect myself and thinking of taking some extra course at Uni.(maybe some kinematics and some structural courses)

Just wondering if you guys ever felt the need to get a few extra engineering courses at Uni wich and which ones?

 

[FeX32]

"Most of my EET classmates have gone on to be engineers without any problem."

This is hard to believe. I am fimilar with the regulations in Canada. To become a P.Eng. from a EET degree would require extensive testing. 99% of tech graduates would not pass.
This is done on purpose.


Fe

 

[trchambe]

I'm sorry, I should've mentioned I'm in the US.

In the states, as I'm sure you're aware from previous threads, professional licensure is awarded per state. I'm not aware of any states that allow an engineering technology graduate to immediately take the test. In many states however, you can be admitted to the test based upon work experience.

I should also specify that when I said engineer, I didn't mean professional engineer. Again, in the US, engineer doesn't necessarily imply professional engineer. That may be different in Canada.

It is true however that most of my classmates are now (unlicensed) engineers, immediately upon graduation. Further, one of my classmates and myself have taken and passed the FE with plans to take the PE once experience requirements have been met, and two EETs I'm aware of from years ago have professional licensure.

And once again, I don't mean to say all EETs are qualified. In my experience it really does depend on what school you go to.

But, the dreaded "Engineer vs. PE" and "Engineer vs. Engineering Tech" debates aside... I'd say don't let your previous degree determine future classes. Try to take whatever you feel you are capable of taking.

 

[FeX32]

My apologies, for some reason I thought you were in Canada.
I am not sure if situation is the same in the US or not.

"I'd say don't let your previous degree determine future classes"
For your situation, this is good to go by.

As for courses, it is very hard to judge what you may want to take not knowing what knowledge you already have.


Fe

 

[IRstuff]

"Most of my EET classmates have gone on to be engineers without any problem"

I don't think that proves anything specifically. I'm well familiar with completely non-degreed persons that managed to get promoted to the "exalted" "engineer" job title, but so what? Just how transferrable is that title? The answer is not one tiny bit; I knew a guy who was simply a brilliant EE, but we couldn't get him hired as a engineer, even with some big guns pushing his hiring against some HR stalwarts.

Titles can be given out at the drop of a hat; "sanitation engineer" is a title that raises the hackles of many engineers concerned about devaluation of their professional prestige. There are tons of engineering jobs that get filled and the people who fill them never do much in the way of straining their dim memories for line integrals, or Fourier transforms; that's just the vagaries of life.

The bottom line is that if anyone wants to maximize his ability to get hired as an engineer, he needs to get a BS in engineering, period, end of story. Anything less is a crapshoot; sometimes you get a winner, and other times you get craps. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is spitting into the wind and and putting their head in the sand.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[trchambe]

FeX32,

No problem. I neglected to mention my location in the first place. I believe I've worked my way around not knowing what I do not know by browsing the available lecture notes and homework assignments, just to see if I believed it was within my capability. RBX should probably do this as well.

IRstuff,

"The bottom line is that if anyone wants to maximize his ability to get hired as an engineer, he needs to get a BS in engineering, period, end of story. Anything less is a crapshoot; sometimes you get a winner, and other times you get craps."

I certainly agree with this. If you're looking for a guaranteed way into the field of work, an engineering degree is the way to go. But, it's not the only way, and for a good many engineering positions (and I mean what is traditionally considered engineering... not those positions in the janitorial realm) it is more than adequate.

I'd go on to say that, if you want to be an engineer, I recommend going into an engineering field of study. There are those like me however who flipped a coin to choose a degree, ended up liking it quite a bit, and fell into an engineering position after school. For these people who wish to further their education, it makes little sense to go back and get a second BS for a position that he's already proven to future employers he is capable if handling. To take graduate level, or at least advanced BS level courses would be a better route, if you are capable of doing well in them.

 

[Guest0527211403]

...the MET's courses in Canada are extremely easy compared to a B.Eng. (accredited) program.

I agree 100%. I graduated from a Canadian MET program and then went into university (U Toronto). The courses were like night and day in terms of level of difficulty.

However, I want to emphasize that there is quite a bit of value in an MET diploma. Having that three year diploma has opened doors to me that many (but not all) of my fellow classmates in university did not have access to. I was able to fight off excessive student loan debt through university by doing CAD design & drafting work in the summers and occasionally while in school. Not to mention the practical experience that I was gaining in parallel to my theoretically oriented classes.

The MET programs in Canada are highly practice oriented. In a way, they teach you how to "get the job done" using tried and true methods. Conversely, university programs try to teach students how to think from first principles.

A little over six years ago I was a confused drafter in my early 20's who wasn't quite happy with what I was doing and was hungry for more. I actually stated my case right here on Eng-Tips and received brilliant and life changing advice from some of the posters above.

The example that had the most impact on me at the time was by another Canadian engineer, RDK (still around, Rick? forgive me if I fudge up some details). He had a friend doing a Civil Eng Technology course while he himself was doing Civil Engineering at university. He and his friend were both taking "Strength of Materials" courses with the same name.

The strength of materials exams taken by RDK's friend dealt with rather straightforward problems applying beam calculations from the back-of-the-book.

RDK's exams, on the other hand, involved a question along the lines of "Given the properties of human bone tissue given in table XYZ, and the approximate shape of a tibia bone given in figure ABC, determine the maximum height a 65 kg person could jump from before breaking their tibia." Not very practical, but exactly the sort of thinking that has to be done by someone who is developing something that is new and groundbreaking (no pun intended).

Six years (and a bachelors degree) later, I still find that example to be highly relevant and use it from time to time when speaking to people in colleges asking the same questions I had asked back then.

Bear in mind, this is not necessarily a one way street. A problem facing many universities today is the lack of true practical skills being offered to students. A great deal of students are so inundated with calculus and Diff.Eq's that they can't tell the difference between a drill press and a lathe. I am working with both of my almae matres to set up a special summer program for first year university students (who aren't all that employable anyways) to take some machine shop and drafting classes at the local community college.

 

[FeX32]

justkeepgiviner,

You are right on the money.
Seems like it is a real asset to have both MET and B.Eng. => best of both worlds.



Fe

 

[Guest0527211403]

And for what it's worth, there is an option for MET grads to get their accredited B.Eng in 2 years at Lakehead University. A number of my college friends went down that path and were back at work much sooner than I was. At least one of them is a few months away from his P.Eng designation, whereas I've got ~2 years to go.

 

[FeX32]

That's some good information for any MET grads out there.

Regarding to the P.Eng., the only unfortunate thing is that they only give 1 year credit for an M.Sc. and I thought 1 for a PhD as well. But it now seems only 1 year for grad school in general. Kinda sux for guys like me.

Good luck for your P.Eng. exam (if you have not taken it already). I hear it's easier if you take it right after taking the Law class in fourth year. I opted out of this option.



Fe

 

[trchambe]

I'm curious... is the Canadian MET degree not available through a university?

"I graduated from a Canadian MET program and then went into university (U Toronto)."

Or am I misreading this?

 

[FeX32]

"is the Canadian MET degree not available through a university"
No it's not. Only community colleges offer this.

From what I understand, you can then go on to enroll into a B.Eng. (or B.A.Sc.) at university as justkeepgiviner did.


Fe

 

[Guest0527211403]

That's correct. The name of the program I attended was "Mechanical Engineering Technology & Design", and rather than a degree, I received a three year diploma. Here in Ontario there is a new category of engineering licensing for graduates of such programs called "Licensed Engineering Technologist", which allows technologists to offer certain types of engineering work within their well defined area of specialty. I considered this as an option when looking into going back to school way back when.

There is a shift going on right now in Canadian community colleges where they are starting to offer degree granting programs in conjunction with affiliated universities, however these are a long way away from being accredited by the CEAB. Still, it shows that the lines between Canadian colleges and universities are starting to blur somewhat.

I wrote the Professional Practice Exams (P.Eng exam) in April and passed. I would definitely recommend to any new Canadian engineering grads reading this to take the exam early and just get it out of the way.

 

[SmokinJoeR]

Why don't you go and get your MSME?

I have a ABET accredited BSEET and I was accepted and graduated 2 years ago with my MSEE without taking any extra classes.

 

[RBX]

Its seems to me that MET courses in the rest of canada and the US is quite different when compared to overhere(Quebec)
Maybe someone could post up the typical MET courses in the US or canada.

My MET exams where never of the "back of the book" you had start at the begining of the design(problem)and work your way up from there.

When i design i start from scratch and have to calculate everything from the ground up.
My MET gives me ALL the necessary tools to go thru the entire machine.

I have never had trouble keeping up with fellow engineers when we talked "design and forces and such".


But if i face some complex designs that take into vibrations into account then i would have to say that MET start to limit my design. And a BS in ME would be helpful if i get to that level of hi-tech machinery.


I dont a BS in ME i just some course to upgrade my knowledge database.

I dont want this thread to be MET vs ME that was not my intention when i started it.

 

[trchambe]

I am a EET, but at the school I attended (in the US), the MET suggested plan of study is as follows:

Semester 1:
Materials I
Computational Analysis Tools in MET

Semester 2:
Production Design and Specifications
Applied Statics
Manufacturing Processes I

Semester 3:
Applied Strength of Materials
Dynamics
Manufacturing Processes II

Semester 4:
Machine Elements I
Heat/Power
Fluid Power

Semester 5:
Applied Thermodynamics

Semester 6:
Applied Fluid Mechanics
Materials II
Controls and Instrumentation for Automation

During the last two semesters, you must choose 4 more MET electives of your choice

These are only the MET courses. Throughout these semesters are also classical physics, chemistry, programming, two semesters of calulus, speech, economics, and a few more random courses.

 

[Sparweb]

I might be the one guy here who's followed a path somewhat close to yours. Diploma and Pure and Applied Sciences from John Abbott in 1993 and after bunch of wandering, an MET in Barrie Ontario, and then settled on SAIT where I took AET. Yeah, there was once such a thing as an aeronautical technologist. I tried university for 1.5 years and hated it. The University of Calgary won't talk to me.

Currently I work in my chosen field so I don't complain and the schooling suits the job. Pretty independent in my workday, too.

If I was going to suggest anything to you, I'd first say look at Lakehead University in Thunder Bay. They offer the most credit for your existing schooling than any other university I can think of.

Secondly, it may be possible to move from a practicing technologist certification to a P.Eng. license without going to school. There is a mechanism for doing this in Alberta and Ontario so maybe you can in Quebec, too.

If, thirdly, your concern is purely job mobility, then you can accomplish that mostly on references and a detailed job description provided by your boss. Get it written down today and find an excuse to get him to "approve" or acknowledge it in some official way. Gives you a piece of paper you can take to a subsequent employer that attests to what you can do. Joining the technologists association of the province will probably demand that kind of info - a nice way to get your credentials in writing. Take that to a job interview and if they have an open mind they may consider you equal to the other P.Eng. candidates.

Fourth thought. You don't sound like the type who must be hired by a big stratified mega-corporation in order to be gainfully employed. Some people are like that, others are much more independent and "autodidactic".

Good luck.

Steven Fahey, CET

 

[sbullet86]

I have heard of companies that do look down on MET degrees, they can easily be avoided. Where I work, it is literally half ME, and half MET grads. The majority of recent grads of both are pursuing a Masters ME degree as well, although some Masters program will require MET students to take a few extra calc classes.

I was told by a professor at where I attended undergrad that MET students have a higher passing rate at the FE than ME students. It was just simply word of mouth, however i believe it. MET coursework has more FE style problems.

One thing to look out for is to make sure the MET degree is ABET accredited. The curriculum RBX posted looks like a half ass program.

 

[RBX]

sbullet86

Where did i post a curriculum!!??

 

[sbullet86]

I was referring to...

Not covered:

Heat transfers,Thermo, vibration,fluids

Fea is also not covered

Covered subjects:

Beam theory(Mohr circle, combined load etc)

Machine design(calculating all elements of machine designs bearings shaft Failure theory etc)

Robotics and automations

Tolerancing(geo and stacking)

Heat treatment etc.

 

[GregTirevold]

Well I graduated from Southern Polytechnic State University in 1998 with a 4 year ABET accredited MET degree. I logged into my alumni transcript and just for the curious here is the list of my classes (bear in mind this was when Georgia was still on a quarter system rather than a semester system):

Intro Comp I
Elem Spanish I
Elem Spanish II
U.S. since 1876
College Algebra
Intro MET
Manfng Processes
Intro Comp II
Trigonometry
Engg Graphics I
Metal CutngOpr I
Metal Joining
Intro Program C
U.S. to 1876
Calculus I
Metal CutngOprII
Tech Writing
Wrld Cvlzn:Medvl
Calculus II
Mechanics
Gen Chemistry I
Descr Geometry
Numerical CntrlI
Intro Psychology
Intro Economics
Engg Graphics II
Statics
Instruments LabI
Electrmag&Relatv
HeatSndLghtQntum
Intro IntnlIssue
Ac&Dc Circ Analy
Engg Economy
Dynamics
Survey Phil Thgt
ElecMchnTrnfmCtl
Western Lit I
Fluid Mechanics
Instruments LabII
Engg Materials
Strength of Mtls
Metrology
Business Comm
Thermodynamics I
Machine Design I
Power LaboratoryI
Tool Design I
Robot Applicatns
Power LaboratoryII
Marketing Prin
ThermodynamicsII
Mgmt&OrgnBehavor
Kinemtcs of Mchn
Engg Law II
Public Speaking
Manuf Operations
Machine Desgn II
207 GPA Hours

It sounds like MET is very different in what it involves between Canada and the US. My course lists is pretty similar to what you'd find as part of a normal ME degree program. Notable exceptions are we didn't have to take a course in Differential Equations, Heat Transfer or Vibration but they were options. I went with 3 Tool/Machine Design classes instead since that was where my interests were at.

Of the people I graduated with in the MET department and kept in contact with 1 went on to get his PE since he worked with a Mechanical/Architecture firm and needed to stamp bid drawings. Everyone else is employed as Mechanical Engineers in industry and aren't required, nor encouraged to seek their PE. I design Heavy Equipment, another friend does vision systems for Automated Manufacturing lines, and another works at Lockheed Martin. None of us has ever been referred to as a "Technologist" to my knowledge and I've worked with a Georgia Tech ME grad every day for 12 years.

There has always been some rivalry between ME/METs, especially since Georgia Tech and Southern Tech are in close proximity with graduates in the same job pool. Overall though the line is pretty blurry around here.

Feel free to take shots at my list or ask questions about it I promise not to take it personally, hehe.