"Educated" opinions on climate change - Part 3 42

[jmw]

At 273 posts I guess the time has come to request the old thread archived and continue in a new thread and it is in this thread that I think the latest news has its proper place.

The world has never seen such freezing heat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

Oh dear,
just what do you have to do to lose the last shreds of credibility?

Tell me honestly folks, how many engineers would still have a job with a track record like Hansen?
Actually, perhaps we'd better not answer that because I suspect the answer is that in any profession there are complete f***-ups who will never be brought to book simply because the credibility of the people who have believed them for so long is also at risk and once one goes then the domino effect comes into being.

I guess that it is only when NASA closes that we will see and end to the career of this fine purveyor of temperature data but we can be sure he will turn up in some other role on the IPCC or as an acolyte of Nobel Laureate, Al Gore.

Success, it seems, depends not on getting it right but on notoriety and why else would so many deadly politicians earn so much on the speaking circuit once they have finally left office and while their dark deeds are still fresh in everyone's mind?


You know I can't help wondering, if it weren't for those "Chads" I wonder what sort of a condition the world would be in now? And, if we are in dire financial straits now, what kind of position would we otherwise be in?



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

jmw, once upon a time before Dr Beeching (spelling?) got his way that may have been a practical suggestion for the UK.

However, Santa Barbara doesn't have a ring road, in fact the main 'across town' route is the highway. So it wouldn't do much for the elecric bus riders locally.

http://sbeti.org/SBEBus.PDF

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[owg]

On April 21 I wrote.
"Seems to me some sort of collection system (tied to cows) would be less intrusive. That should lessen the carbon hoofprint of the dairy industry."
It was not meant to be taken seriously. I thought the "carbon hoofprint" reference might indicate that.
Next time I will add a :-D just so there is no confusion.

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[jmw]

Oh, humour?
During the war when petrol was in short supply, cars had gas bags on the roof that allowed them to burn town/coal gas instead. Putting a bag on the cow and then transferring it, when full, to a car might be a good idea.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

Who wants to design the solid/gas separation system though;-)

KENAT,

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[cranky108]

So if the gas bag idea cought on, how long do you think it will be before someone tries it on other animals, or gassey humans?

However if cows were raised, like pork, in sealed houses, then the problem should be easer.
However the free range movement would be very upset by that idea.

 

[jmw]

No they wouldn't, they'd insist we all become Vegans (instead of Vulcans)

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[cranky108]

Live long and prosper.

What is the deal with flairing of gases at refinereys, and gas processing plants? They must have some BTU value as they always have a flame.

Also if they wanted to capture co2 would a ethonol plant be a good place for that?

 

[KENAT]

cranky108, a lot of cattle are raised in feed sheds or the like for at least some of their life. As you point out during this time somehow gathering their waste (both solid and gaseous, and perhaps less usefully liquid) is quite feasible and already done to some extent.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

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What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[csd72]

Ive read the term 'global warming' many times in this thread. The Scientists no longer use this term as they now realise that some areas may actually get colder, they now use the term 'climate change'.

 

[KENAT]

Hence the thread title

"Educated" opinions on climate change - Part 3

Didn't you start the first one csd72?

KENAT,

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What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[LCruiser]

csd72 (Structural) 27 Apr 09 14:10
Ive read the term 'global warming' many times in this thread. The Scientists no longer use this term as they now realise that some areas may actually get colder, they now use the term 'climate change'.

Correct. They now claim almost any weather excursion from average - hot, cold, wet or dry.

 

[Unotec]

Hmmmh, I would hesitate a bit calling those scientists... But in any event, Climate CHange no longer applies either, now it is "Climate Disruption"

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[csd72]

Kenat,

Yes I did, way back then. Different job, different country now.

LCruiser,

Yes and they claim the temperatures are rising in the spring and falling in the fall!

Give them a break, climate science is newer than computer engineering. It is like designing a building and inventing the codes as you go along - the learning curve is huge.

Even if the evidence is not totally compelling, what if they are right!

 

[LCruiser]

The global temperature, according to satellites, has been declining this century. Also, increasing CO2 is good for the biosphere - that's all we really know. We do need to find out what the effect on climate is - but the alarmists ignoring that the sun's inactivity allowing more gcr's and increasing albedo is quite ... interesting.

So, what if, in this time of overpopulation, we need that extra CO2? That seems likely, whereas decreasing temperatures while CO2 has been increasing (supposedly further and further out of equilibrium) flies in the face of global warming dogma.

 

[Unotec]

csd72,

Give them a break, climate science is newer than computer engineering. It is like designing a building and inventing the codes as you go along - the learning curve is huge.

but I do not remember many politicians scavenging my wallet to pay for the errors on the code, mishaps, lies, doom and gloom, end of civilization, etc.... So no, I do not give them a break. For a break they would have had to be ethical at first.
Unfortunately, while the heart was in the right place "stop wasting", the way things developed is far from acceptable. Carbon trading, Kyoto, biofuels subsidy, taxes, taxes....

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[cranky108]

Dare we ask these politicians to retract these laws and taxes? Dare we ask them to apologize?

Cleaning thing up a bit did not hurt. But limiting people for a theory that can't proven. That is just beyond.

 

[KENAT]

"Cleaning thing up a bit did not hurt."

Are you sure? I remember some of the environmentally inspired rules, regulations etc. being a bit of a pain at a previous employer.

I wonder if any jobs in 'heavy polluting' industries got off shored at least in part due to 'Cleaning thing up a bit'.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

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What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[csd72]

Kenat,

That can be a good thing. I never buy locally produced paper, I prefer to cause deforestation on the other side of the world

Anyway, america has had it too easy for too long - low taxes, cheap fuel, cheap goods, leanient pollution laws. You start to believe that you cant live without these things but the rest of the western world does and survives well too.

 

[KENAT]

Actually csd, the job I was thinking of was in the UK.

KENAT,

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[cranky108]

So what exactly do you call cleaning things up a bit?
Maybe we have different points of views on what is a bit.

If getting rid of choking smoke (like burning tires)is a problem to you, then I disagree with you. This is the definition of a health concern.

CO2 is a clear oderless gas, which isen't very noticable at current levels to anyone without special equipment. And I don't believe causes runaway climate change.

Dividing line should be a measured health concern, not theory that can't be proven or measured.