"Educated" opinions on climate change - Part 3 42

[jmw]

At 273 posts I guess the time has come to request the old thread archived and continue in a new thread and it is in this thread that I think the latest news has its proper place.

The world has never seen such freezing heat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

Oh dear,
just what do you have to do to lose the last shreds of credibility?

Tell me honestly folks, how many engineers would still have a job with a track record like Hansen?
Actually, perhaps we'd better not answer that because I suspect the answer is that in any profession there are complete f***-ups who will never be brought to book simply because the credibility of the people who have believed them for so long is also at risk and once one goes then the domino effect comes into being.

I guess that it is only when NASA closes that we will see and end to the career of this fine purveyor of temperature data but we can be sure he will turn up in some other role on the IPCC or as an acolyte of Nobel Laureate, Al Gore.

Success, it seems, depends not on getting it right but on notoriety and why else would so many deadly politicians earn so much on the speaking circuit once they have finally left office and while their dark deeds are still fresh in everyone's mind?


You know I can't help wondering, if it weren't for those "Chads" I wonder what sort of a condition the world would be in now? And, if we are in dire financial straits now, what kind of position would we otherwise be in?



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[cranky108]

We can always use wood for heat. Which is somewhat conforting as it is very difficult to regulate, tax,and control, while causing govermental issues with deforrestation. Sort of last resort for many.

 

[SnTMan]

csd72, the ocean's landfill as it were.

Never heard of it before. Interesting.

Regards,

Mike

 

[KENAT]

A while ago, maybe on the first of these threads, I brought up the idea of a battery pack for electric cars that could be swapped, a bit like the packs on some cordless drills (but bigger) in a scheme similar to the way propane tanks are exchanged. At the time Greg mentioned he'd seen such ideas before.

Well, while not yet in production or here's a relevant news story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30744602/

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[SnTMan]

KENAT, been used for electric forklifts forever...

Regards,

Mike

 

[KENAT]

Rings a bell now you mention it SnTMan, but I dont' remember them being quite as easy to switch etc.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[GregLocock]

The bit they don't show is the hard bit. Behind the scenes they must be moving charged and discharged packs around, and interrogating the on board diagnostics so as to determine the battery's condition. Economically it is hard to imagine it'd be worth doing this manually.

Anyway, yes that is a bigger uglier version of what I'd imagined, it is very similar to how we 'stuff' the engine driveline and suspension into a car.





Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[cranky108]

What would be the cost of changing bettery packs, versis other moble energy technologys?

How about a distribution system of low BTU biogas to fill up cars in a simular manor to how propane is used and distributed in the US now? It's green, and somewhat compatable with what is already existing.

It also dosen't have as much of a cold weather problem as batteries, and can produce a usable heat for the passengers.

If low BTU gas needs help then a E100 fuel can be vaporized into the intake.

 

[KENAT]

I agree that CNG (possibly supplemented with biogas) or similar seems probably easier to deal with than hydrogen, electric/battery and some biofuels for many applications.

While I've seen various parts of the puzzle I'm not totally sure why it isn't more actively persued.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[cranky108]

Sometimes I think the wave of people follow the flashy things.

They are not interested in the not so flashy things like biogas, former gas, wood, or simular technologies. Although they are more practicle.

However, when it comes to the price tag, people vote with there dollars, and we see the not so flashy technologies shine. Unless there is a goverment substidies involved like wind power and solar.

 

[SnTMan]

KENAT, I never said they were easy to switch...

I know one thing, after reading about Obama's plans for mileage and emissions limits, I'm stocking up on good, used pickups

Regards,

Mike

 

[cranky108]

How many used pickups do you have so far?

I am however interested in the new technologys to make the older vehicles more efficent. The power generating shocks, and thermal electric generators that fit around the exaust pipe. To bad Detroit never developed these.

Actually when you think about it, small cars have much more problems in the Winter with ice and snow build up. Which will probally mean cities will have to spend more on street work with large snow plows (Again more unfunded mandates).

And where oh where will all that salt end up?

 

[SnTMan]

cranky108, well since you asked....

I currently have two Nissans, an '84 bought new, now the sparest of spare cars, and a '94 bought used, my daily driver.

I have an '02 Silverado 1500HD for towing the travel trailer, both bought used.

My previous post really meant full-size work trucks, since apparently the new ones are going to get REALLY expensive.

See "Big Autos Could Get Too Costly"

http://www.tulsaworld.com/twpdfs/2009/FINAL/W_052009_A_3.PDF

Regards,

Mike

 

[cranky108]

What a bummer that they think 28MPG is good for a small car.
My old 86, S-15 still gets better than that on the highway. Although the 4 cylinder has it's limits.

The real answer is the car companys will cheat. Mileage will be measured with all the accessories turned off, and after the car is warmed up.
So in the Winter with the warm up, or in the summer with the A/C you won't get the rated mileage.

They will make the cars smaller, and more expencive, and they will spend all there time on the drive train, ignoring other more efficent ideas.

 

[jmw]

White roofs?
Well, guess who has picked up on this loony tunes idea now:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5389278/Obamas-green-guru-calls-for-white-roofs.html

A quick look at Google earth will show we really should be painting tree leaves and grass white - except for parts of Spain where poly tunnels for fruit and veg virtually cover vast areas of the land surface.
ime to invest in one of the paint companies maybe?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[csd72]

I agree with the sentiment of the emissions rules but not with the method.

Increase the tax on fuel to more in line with other western countries, and the demand for fuel efficient cars will increase in response. The offshoot benefit is that this money can be sowed back into bridge and highway upgrades or repair.

I disagree with those who claim that this will detrimental to the economy. Did the sudden increase in jet fuel prices make that much of a difference to air traffic?

There could also be a system of tax relief for those industries that are most effected by the increase such as freight companies

 

[cranky108]

White roofs and roads, This shoudld be fun to watch over the next few years.

It should also change the equasions for global warming. We will see if it does.

It also seems to be polorizing the global warming community. Those that want to regulate, and those that want a solution.

Bet Al Gore diden't see this comming.

 

[jmw]

Did you see how many airlines went bust recently?
Can you claim that increased fuel costs didn't contribute to their problems?
The airlines can claim that as does British Airways which just posted a huge great loss. Rumours now that BA and Delta will combine.... ever wonder why you get such crappy service on aircraft now or why Ryan air wants to charge passengers to use the WC?

Now if we were to accept that increasing fuel tax had no effect on air traffic then it failed its alleged purpose which is to reduce traffic and reducing traffic has to mean that some one somewhere suffers a loss from their economy. (Unless we suspec t that the excuse of climate to increase taxes is just a tax raising dodge in which case tax will be the max the traffic will bear without shutting down the cash flow).
We don't have electric aircraft... nor nuclear, nor wind turbine powered. We do have more and more efficient aircraft.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[jmw]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...jobs-as-it-plunges-to-a-record-401m-loss.html

But scratch Delta, that was my Brother-in law mishearing the English news on the Spanish Iberia possibility....

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

I live in the desert (120F is about the warmest I've seen), a lot of the older homes/buildings have white roofs etc.. Always seemed quite sensible to me, in preference to the dark grey/black shingles.

I did see an article that the local climate effect of all the dark surfaces in urban areas is measurable and increases local temperature and affects local weather patterns. However, I can't quote chapter and verse on the research methodology etc. so take it with a pinch of salt.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[SnTMan]

KENAT, it is interesting that in past times homes and buildings kind of followed reqional practices suited to the conditions. Big wide porches here, earth sheltered there, etc.

Everything looks the same everywhere you go now, at least in the U.S. I doubt the neighborhood assn. will go for white roofs

Regards,

Mike